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By the same token, with some college professors, you're limited to what they know and what they want you to know. Isn't it true that some college professors require their students to use only books written by that same professor? For some subjects, unless a professor has worked outside the university within the field he's teaching, he only knows the books and not the practical knowledge. Sailor history: "he knows the ropes" was actually an insult which meant that was the only thing the sailor was able to learn. It didn't mean he knew a lot about the ship. There was a time when teenagers would work summers at a company like an apprentice. They learn about the job, what's involved in the job, and whether or not this is the career for them. Trade school is far more valuable to our nation's work force than a college degree. Many trade school careers are involved in production and repair, much of which are middle to upper middle class income and highly valued for corporation production plant location. Welders, carpenters, electricians, and HVAC mechanics are all examples of career jobs one can get through trade schools. You don't excel at such jobs by being dumb. Another source of a career job training is the US Military. This only works if you do your research and know what you're getting into. A Navy ship is like a mini-city. The job ratings in the navy usually require learning many forms of civilian jobs. Example, one job must learn to cut hair (with women on ships, this includes styling now), vending machine stocking and repair, running a ship's store (includes inventory and ordering), ship's laundry (industrial size machines and dry cleaning), and all include stock management. My job was the engine/boiler room. Chemical water test of boilers and potable water, steam turbine electric generators, water distilling plants, and the repair of related equipment (pumps, air compressors, and control systems). We all had to also learn how to fight fires. I had also attended the Navy's Nuclear program. It's divided in three schools. I made it through the first but couldn't make it through the second. My wife's nephew graduated from this program and is on an aircraft carrier operating a nuclear reactor. Their training puts them under a great amount of stress to see if they can handle such conditions. They're also put through many college level courses learning physics and nuclear physics. If they stay out of trouble, when they get out of the Navy they can work at a nuclear power plant or on a traditional power plant. I took a lower paying job for job security working in a hospital boiler room. This job requires critical thinking to figure out what's wrong by knowing how all the systems are interconnected and how they effect each other. We also closely watch the weather systems. Different weather systems effect our heating/cooling systems differently.
Actually, with a teacher, you're limited to what they know AND what you know to learn. This is why they say the student walks away knowing more than the teacher teaches. You learn what the teacher teaches AND what you sought to learn. You learn from the teacher, your classmates and yourself.
Yes, some subjects require experience. Hopefully, universities are hiring experienced professors for those courses. I would hope a law professor was once a practicing lawyer and a medical school professor a practicing physician. However, an english teacher doesn't need to have been a journalist nor a math teacher an actuary. Many subjects are book subjects or paper and pencil subjects (thinking math proofs here). Some aren't. I wouldn't want someone teaching project design to engineering students who had never designed a project. Fortunately, my university had the sense to bring in people from industry for the classes where real world experience was needed. They also required 12 months on the job training for graduation. The PE exam requires 5 years.
Think all the other people who dropped out of college and didn't become Bill Gates. The rare exception who succeeds without an education doesn't prove that the average person can do it. For most of us, who are not Bill Gates, education is necessary.
The first rule of Marketing "Create a Need". You need a College Degree to get a good job, even if you need to go into indentured servitude to get it.
We did this to ourselves though. We decided that everyone should get a college degree and now it's needed to get jobs it was never needed for before. Since we've dummied down education, you really look like a dummy without a degree.
I think we're well past the point that anyone can graduate from college. So if you haven't, you're left with some explaining to do. If you have, it doesn't prove much anymore because anyone can do it. So, advanced degrees are becomming required for jobs. Fortunately, they're not too tough to get either. It's just a matter of putting in your time.
Intelligence may not equal College Degree, but equally surely, Intelligence does not equal Competence!
Intelligence does not guarantee Good Employee, either.
Nor, unfortunately, does Intelligencetranslate automatically to Good Job Fit.
Completion of college shows a greater degree of persistence than College Dropout does, and is a lot quicker and easier for an employer to use than Intelligence Test Results would be - it is not all that simple to administer a decent IQ test, even if you are among those who believes in them.
Yes, though, I do agree that Competent, Intelligent workers should be hired over incompetent, unintelligent workers.
ditto ditto ditto...an IQ test just tells you if a person can take a particular test better than someone else...IMO it has no translation to real life, success in employment, etc. I read a while back that the most common employment among Mensa members was postal worker. I also don't necessarily put a lot of stock in college degrees. I have known 3 different people who all went to Cornell and were absolute morons, no common sense or ability to apply anything - but they could B.S. really well. (Not trying to pick on Cornell here; I've known other people from different schools who weren't the sharpest either.) I've met people who didn't have high school diplomas who were very intelligent, had brilliant minds when it came to putting things together, and/or understanding complicated concepts. I think it's important to ensure that everyone has the opportunities to receive the appropriate amount of education (if it's what they want), so they can achieve what they have potential for. I think it's good when (for certain jobs) an employer states the degree is "preferred," because sometimes natural intelligence or professional experience will outweigh a degree. I think it's also important to understand that very smart people might not want to perform what others might consider the "best" jobs.
Well... generally, those that do well academically in high school are encouraged to go on to college. Hardly anyone that does well in high school (such as straight A's in math and science) stops going to school once they get their high school degree. Careers in the sciences, such as engineering and medicine, do require years of formal education. Some things just can't be learned on the job with help from an indulgent and supportive employer.
Going on to college and doing well in ones college classes shows a future employer that one is able to learn complex knowledge and also to take that knowledge, research it further and take it to a higher level. It shows an employer that one can be given an assignment or project, and complete the task successfully. At the university I am working for, the students are encouraged to work on development projects, write a report, create a poster board presentation of their project and then to "sell" its merits to fellow students and professors.
Anyway, I realize that book smarts aren't everything, but I prefer to date men with at least a college degree because in general, these are people that enjoy gathering knowledge and reading good literature. They make for more enjoyable and satisfying conversationalists.
On the other extreme, men in the trades, such as construction or auto mechanics, don't generally talk about the latest in scientific advancements or the good books they have recently read. And while it's great that they can do their own handiwork on their houses such as building decks and additions, that stuff is very boring (to me) to talk about. And this is from my own personal observations.
So mikejj2004... I am just curious as to how old you are and what career are you hoping to pursue without the benefits of a college degree? And if you find in your social interactions, people thinking that you are less smart than their friends with a college degree... Usually, most of the people I meet never come out and say if they have a college degree, but from the way they talk and their interests, I am usually able to accurately guess if they are college educated or not.
By the same token, with some college professors, you're limited to what they know and what they want you to know. Isn't it true that some college professors require their students to use only books written by that same professor? [quote]
Actually, a lot of professors do this so that they don't end up contradicting the text, which can be very confusing for students as they do not know which answer is the correct answer or the one that the prof will accept. But I agree with you that very good professors explore and accept various ideas and theories (usually you just need a sound and compelling argument.)
If one would think back before colleges, universities and institutes of higher learning came into existance. There were only "great thinkers", and these great "thinkers" passed on their great wisdom and knowledge to others. Those whom these great thinkers taught became known as students of great thinks and eventually, were awarded degrees.
The greatest inventions of early civilization were created by individuals who were not college graduates, because college did not exist. Therefore, the really true intelligent and knowledgeable of the world are not those with the college degrees, but those are born with superior knowledge, intelligence and understanding at birth.
Obtaining a college degree is great; but anyone who believes a college degree makes an individual "smarter" or more intelligent is wrong.
Last edited by dorado0359; 10-10-2009 at 02:03 PM..
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For most of us, who are not Bill Gates, education is necessary.
