Tampering with Antiques (crafts, paint, watches, archaeological)
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Too often I come across either a true antique or a vintage item and see that the item has been tampered with by the seller. For example, dismantling a perfectly well frame picture or taking the guts out of a clock for no apparent reason other than to just look at it. Why?? I do not understand this at all. I believe one should leave antique and vintage items as one finds them if one's sole plan is to sell the item to some buyer somewhere. Taking things apart seems virtually pathological to me. I just do not understand it. Why do that?!?!
I was at an antiques mall yesterday, and saw a woman unpeeling layer after layer of fabric off an ironing board. At first, I thought it was a customer, then decided it was the vendor. I guess she was trying to figure out the condition of the board underneath, and if it was prettier with or without the fabric.
I suspect sometimes they open it up or take it apart in the hopes of fixing it or finding evidence that it's more valuable.
And some people think they can make it "better" with tinkering or paint. Auugghh!
I was at an antiques mall yesterday, and saw a woman unpeeling layer after layer of fabric off an ironing board. At first, I thought it was a customer, then decided it was the vendor. I guess she was trying to figure out the condition of the board underneath, and if it was prettier with or without the fabric.
I suspect sometimes they open it up or take it apart in the hopes of fixing it or finding evidence that it's more valuable.
And some people think they can make it "better" with tinkering or paint. Auugghh!
It is utterly painful to see this sort of thing. Good grief... I saw an antique today that the seller took apart, and I asked, for what purpose did you take it apart? No reason....just felt like it.
with some antiques,the dealers need to know if the original parts are still there,it would makes a difference when pricing the item,eg, antique clock,pocket watch,
^^^ Removing a picture from a frame is not necessary, and as for watches, clocks, and that sort of thing, unless the dealer has sent them to a reputable craftsman to be taken apart, cleaned, and put back together again, the dealer should be selling those antiques as found.
You do not tamper with an archaeological site, and you do not tamper with antiques unless for a TRULY, indisputably good reason for doing so. People who tamper with antiques are gormless amateurs at best and despicable spivs at worst.
Last edited by PhinneyWalker; 07-31-2022 at 07:27 PM..
You do not tamper with an archaeological site, and you do not tamper with antiques unless for a TRULY, indisputably good reason for doing so. People who tamper with antiques are gormless amateurs at best and despicable spivs at worst.
Guess it depends on what you consider "tampering". Not all antiques are equally valuable or significant, and neither are archeological sites. Consider that the site was "tampered with" initially. That was necessary to evaluate whether it retained enough of its integrity to warrant preservation or management as an archeological site. If enough of its integrity had already been lost by the time it was found, it may not warrant further protection. The site may simply be logged in a museum catalog somewhere and left to continue its natural decline. Some of the most significant parts the site contained may have been removed for safekeeping, to make it less of a target for vandals or scavengers, for more advanced analysis and education, and to protect them from further degradation by the elements.
Example: In my last job I worked closely with an archeologist. She evaluated every historical and prehistoric site discovered on the land we managed. Not all of these sites were of equal importance to archeological history or science. The location of many were simply documented and described before the site was developed for modern use.
For some "functional" antiques, periodic intentional tampering gets incorporated into its history in a way. I have an antique music box: it's about 115 years old now. One of the primary reasons it retains its value (and I don't just mean financial) is because the mechanism is fully functional. If nothing is done to it that won't last forever. That mechanism had 110 year old oil and grimy residue built up on it. I had it cleaned and re-oiled to keep it in working condition. That meant taking it apart, inspecting parts for for corrosion or damaging dirt, and putting it back together again...to fit one of the examples you described, that was tampering. There's little point in having an antique music box if it doesn't play music. Once again, "tampering" may come down to semantics.
Another example: I bought an antique Japanese woodblock print in its original mount and frame. Paper used at the time the print was produced becomes acidic due to the natural breakdown of lignin in the wood pulp. Acidic paper damages the pigments used to create the image. The paint on the frame was oil-based so it eventually affects the print too. To halt that degradation and enable people to enjoy it for another 100 years I had the old mount/frame removed, the condition of the original paper evaluated, stabilized, and the print reframed using modern archival materials. If I didn't, the print imagery would decay to the point it was no longer visible. An image that's no longer visible sort of defeats the point of having one, doesn't it? Again, semantics? There's a very fine line between tampering, preservation, and restoration.
Last edited by Parnassia; 08-01-2022 at 03:54 PM..
I worked in antiques restoration for several years as a bridge to get me to retirement age, and can say that there are as many reasons TO tamper, as not. Everything from fixing the flour sifter inside a Hoosier cabinet, to a complete "ground up" restoration of a console radio, including "bench" diagnostics on the receiver.
One thing I'd like to propose, we used to get a lot of mouse infested "barn finds" that people would rescue as a property was changing hands, and bring us pieces that were near kindling, and pay for a complete restore.
They might have $40 in the original piece, pay us $600+ to restore it, and then sell it at a tidy profit to the right buyer.
So, what you are seeing, MIGHT have once been further gone than you realize?
I worked in antiques restoration for several years as a bridge to get me to retirement age, and can say that there are as many reasons TO tamper, as not. Everything from fixing the flour sifter inside a Hoosier cabinet, to a complete "ground up" restoration of a console radio, including "bench" diagnostics on the receiver.
One thing I'd like to propose, we used to get a lot of mouse infested "barn finds" that people would rescue as a property was changing hands, and bring us pieces that were near kindling, and pay for a complete restore.
They might have $40 in the original piece, pay us $600+ to restore it, and then sell it at a tidy profit to the right buyer.
So, what you are seeing, MIGHT have once been further gone than you realize?
Perhaps reread what I wrote. I am not speaking about preservation or professional restoration. I am talking about taking things apart for no reason whatsoever. Removing a very stable painting or print from a stable frame, for example, doing zero to it, and then putting it back in--half assed I might add. I call that tampering.
Perhaps reread what I wrote. I am not speaking about preservation or professional restoration. I am talking about taking things apart for no reason whatsoever. Removing a very stable painting or print from a stable frame, for example, doing zero to it, and then putting it back in--half assed I might add. I call that tampering.
How exactly do you "know" the piece was pristine before your seller "half-assed" it?
Just using your clock example...how do you know for certain that the clock you are seeing is not a composite derived from 2 separate pieces.
A working mechanism liberated from one unit having a damaged case, then "kit bashed" into a second unit having a decent shell, but the mechanism having stripped gears?
Perhaps you are dealing with fraud much more so than tinkerers?
I know of dealers who go around to yard sales and thrift stores often enough that they can recognize "junk" that matches junk they already own, and try to combine the good in each source hoping to get a single salable "Frankenstein" unit in the trade off.
Most Americans dont know antiques,they think if it is old and dirty and coming from an estate,it must be antique and valuable.
Pocket watches get gummed up,most are 100 years old and they need to be cleaned before wearing them,in fact they should be serviced if you can find someone to do it.
US customs define antiques to be at least 100 years old,but most Americans middle class call anything dirty,old,10-20 yeas old antique.
if you do not approve the dealer tampering with his antiques,then do not do business with him
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