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...and the gratitude of Westwood and Price Hill knows no bounds. All "those people" getting pushed out gotta go somewhere, and in recent times that's translated into "across the viaducts."
What exactly is it about Oakley and Mt Lookout that requires "improvement?" Perhaps they're in need of fake old-fashioned "acorn" streetlamps, or a fountain? Sheeeit. Or maybe a tasteful parking garage, so that fewer patrons of Nectar (or Hugo, as the case may be) have to circle the area before finding a space for the Beemer? It's OK to let Kroger's quit on Woes Lawn or to call out the 'dozers to Madville, though.
The city will only see the error of its ways when it's realized that the supply of urban-pioneering trend-chasing yuppies is finite. Most of the romping Caucasians at the "Gateway Festival" were from suburbia, judging from the captioned photos someone posted in another thread. Five will get you ten that they were all racing back to Mason etc long before sundown, with NO intention of moving downtown, all pleased with themselves that they "survived" their "adventure" in da nasty Nati.
...and the gratitude of Westwood and Price Hill knows no bounds. All "those people" getting pushed out gotta go somewhere, and in recent times that's translated into "across the viaducts."
What exactly is it about Oakley and Mt Lookout that requires "improvement?" Perhaps they're in need of fake old-fashioned "acorn" streetlamps, or a fountain? Sheeeit. Or maybe a tasteful parking garage, so that fewer patrons of Nectar (or Hugo, as the case may be) have to circle the area before finding a space for the Beemer? It's OK to let Kroger's quit on Woes Lawn or to call out the 'dozers to Madville, though.
The city will only see the error of its ways when it's realized that the supply of urban-pioneering trend-chasing yuppies is finite. Most of the romping Caucasians at the "Gateway Festival" were from suburbia, judging from the captioned photos someone posted in another thread. Five will get you ten that they were all racing back to Mason etc long before sundown, with NO intention of moving downtown, all pleased with themselves that they "survived" their "adventure" in da nasty Nati.
GoyGuy, I am waiting for the census data but I suspect the demographic has already changed in OTR. As for people heading across the viaduct? Not likely as 'the poor' are already leaving those areas because the slumlords adjustable rate mortgages have come due. Two of the larger "investor/slumlords went under and about a 100 units are on the market that are actually not bad houses (once you "un-apartment' them) and based on what I see are being bought for restoration by people who actually WANT to live in Price Hill , Fairmount and Westwood. The "poor' are moving to the townships and the foreclosed tract homes bought for pennies on the dollar and going section 8.
IN FACT Goyguy, Saturday June 5th is the First Westside Preservation Summit sponsored by Cincinnati Preservation Association. It will be held at the Westwood Library from 10-4. City officials wil be there (talk about a rough audience) as well as experts in historic preservation. MAYBE you should register for the confernece (its free) and expand your actual knowledge of what is going on on the West Side of Cincinnati? Just a thought! Registration is limited but you can meet REAL people who are restoring on the Westside. FYI: We arent a bunch of 20 somethings and you need not wear a bulletproof vest.
[SIZE=3]Sessions will focus on challenges facing West Side communities, and the afternoon sessions on solutions. Topics will include: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Balancing code enforcement and historic preservation[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Preservation and demolition in Westwood[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]The City role in preservation[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Learning from other cities: best practices for preservation legislation[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Jewels of the West Side: lesser-known historic treasures[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]A plan for preservation and receivership [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [/SIZE] [SIZE=3]Confirmed speakers include Cincinnati Urban Conservator Larry Harris, Edward Cunningham of the Cincinnati Community Development Department, and representatives of several community groups including Jim McNulty of the Westwood Civic Association, Dave Zelman of the Riverside Civic Association, Paul Willham of the Knox Hill Neighborhood Association and Danny Klingler of the Over-the-Rhine Foundation. [/SIZE] [SIZE=3][/SIZE] [SIZE=3][/SIZE]
What exactly is it about Oakley and Mt Lookout that requires "improvement?" Perhaps they're in need of fake old-fashioned "acorn" streetlamps, or a fountain? Sheeeit.
Let's see ... a few years ago, the city ripped out all the trees in and around Hyde Park Square and replace them with ... more trees.
Your tax dollars at work.
And yes, there has been work in and around Mt. Lookout Square in recent memory. The parking area was revamped and there was substantial infrastructure work done. I don't remember when that was -- sometime earlier this decade.
Meanwhile, Madisonville's, Westwood's, Corryville's, and countless other neighborhoods' business districts flounder. Oh, wait ... the people living in those neighborhoods don't have copious amounts of money. Now it allllllllll makes sense ...
Let's see ... a few years ago, the city ripped out all the trees in and around Hyde Park Square and replace them with ... more trees.
Your tax dollars at work.
I could have told them that when they put the first trees in. They planted Ginko trees. Since I grew up in a house with a Ginko in the front yard, I knew it would just be a matter of time before the smell of dog feces emenating from ripe Ginko berries would have the forester out to remove the trees. It took a couple of years longer than I thought it would, but they are gone now - thank God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81
And yes, there has been work in and around Mt. Lookout Square in recent memory. The parking area was revamped and there was substantial infrastructure work done. I don't remember when that was -- sometime earlier this decade.
It has been over thirty five years since the business district of Mt. Lookout has seen any significant infrastructure or streetscape improvements. Years of wear and tear are evident to those that shop, dine and live in and around Mt. Lookout Square. Crumbling sidewalks, dead (or dying) trees, outdated services, and fading signage all indicate that the business district’s infrastructure is failing to support business and economic growth in one of Cincinnati’s most prominent neighborhoods.
About – Mt. Lookout Community Council (http://www.mtlookoutsquare.com/revitalization.html - broken link)
I'll take this view anyday over the burbs. And I only paid 4000.00 for our house! True I have LOTS of restoration to do but I'm not complaining, I couldn't be happier with my decision!
Granted $4,000 for a house is quite encouraging, recently paid more than that to replace my A/C.
But if I interpret your other posts correctly, this is also your occupation, and you are an expert. Just can't share your enthusiasm about the revitalization of the entire city, because I simply do not believe there are enough people with the means, willingness to gamble, and who will put up with the obstacles to make it come to fruitation. Certain areas with particularly significant architecture and ambience in the surroundings will make the grade. But I venture to say the majority will not.
It has been over thirty five years since the business district of Mt. Lookout has seen any significant infrastructure or streetscape improvements. Years of wear and tear are evident to those that shop, dine and live in and around Mt. Lookout Square. Crumbling sidewalks, dead (or dying) trees, outdated services, and fading signage all indicate that the business district’s infrastructure is failing to support business and economic growth in one of Cincinnati’s most prominent neighborhoods.
About – Mt. Lookout Community Council (http://www.mtlookoutsquare.com/revitalization.html - broken link)
I think was OhioGirl is frustrated about is the "inequity" of how the city allocates resources. That is a legitamate issue.
I also think that neighborhoods can't 'expect' the city is going to fix their problems. I dont "expect' the city to drop a couple of mill in my Knox Hill Neighborhood (Although it would make a major difference to turn my neighborhood around)
One thing I suggest for business redevlopment is a "main street program" in conjunction with the National Trust. Great resources and strategies to accomplish turnaround AND how to lobby city officials to get your share of infrastructure improvements. Tons of info here!
I believe its going to be up to neighborhoods to orchestrate their own turn arounds. Lets face it the city is more interested in OTR, Washington Park and the Banks right now.
Granted $4,000 for a house is quite encouraging, recently paid more than that to replace my A/C.
But if I interpret your other posts correctly, this is also your occupation, and you are an expert. Just can't share your enthusiasm about the revitalization of the entire city, because I simply do not believe there are enough people with the means, willingness to gamble, and who will put up with the obstacles to make it come to fruitation. Certain areas with particularly significant architecture and ambience in the surroundings will make the grade. But I venture to say the majority will not.
I am maybe an "expert" now, but nobody starts out being an "expert" in Old house restoration. In my case I had no desire to live in a tract home neighborhood like I grew up in. Actually I was an attorney by profession and sold my interest in my partnership, left the 'corporate world" years ago to do what I love.
The vast majority of the people I work with are 'do it yourselfers' who need help with issues like developing a restoration plan, learning what comes first, second, etc and having a scope of work, bid specs ( so they are telling the contractors exactly what they need done, as opposed to going in blind and paying 3-4 times what they should for things they do not need), help with selecting and finding the right contractor. That sort of thing.
We also do period historic interior design, Wallpapers, stenciling, antiques, lighting etc.
Most of the people I work with are FAR from experts. Restoration isn't for everyone and frankly there are some things, I myself do not 'like' to do and am totally OK with contracting that out. By knowing what you are doing and what you should pay, most of the people I work with are restoring at between 50-80 per square foot. Those will some skills a lot less than that. You can't build a new house with the quality of an old one for anywhere near that.
As for Cincinnati, I see no problem with there being enough people to restore. I CAN tell you it won't be locals, but people moving here from out of state who are doing so for the architecture. BTW people in Cincinnati do not understand that what they consider "hovels' little Second Empire Cottages and Italianate rowhouses are the "holy grail" to old house people. If you look at "hotspots' of preservation. Cities like New Orleans, Charleston, San Francisco,Ashville NC, Louisville. It was people,who came in from outside the city, changed the 'perceptions' about those neighborhoods and made them popular once again.
Thanks to the misguided "urban renewal" policies of the 1960's, which for some reason Cincinnati didn't fall into. This city has neighborhoods of architecture that is simply gone anywhere else. I have given tours of this city to Preservationists friends of mine from across the country who are simple amazed by architecture in Price Hill and Fairmount that you wouldn't give a second glance too. I know people moving to Cincinnati from St Louis, Chicago, New York, Indianapolis and a host of other places simply because of the architecture.
People rarely appreciate that which they are surrounded by and accustomed too. That's why people are always "surprised' when Urban areas take off because they just couldn't see it coming.
restorationconsultant ... Love your enthusiasm. Just don't know whether I can agree as to what percentage of the city will be restored as you envision. I agree, time will tell.
I'm not from Cincinnati, but have recently done a lot of research on the city and its neighborhood's, townships, and burbs. My research is for the purpose of determining where I should invest in commercial multi-family housing (5+).
First off I must say I have never seen a more polarized debate about a city. It seems no matter the subject - casino, streetcar, the banks, gentrification, OTR, east side/west side, etc - the debate is fierce. From an outsiders point of view looking onto the situation it seems that there is a lot going on - it seems nearly the whole city is in flux. Perhaps the only agreement is with regard to the incompetence of the public officials (doesn't every city have this problem in some ways?)
Furthermore the thought of the city as a whole has not been discussed much. Cincinnati qualifies for many as a "rust belt" city due to its age, location in the mid-west, and the fact that its census population was once at a half million now stands at 300,000. Overall as a city though, cincy is older than other rust belters, has survived and adapted to changes better, and has a lot of HG's of large companies + UC and hospitals to provide jobs. Knowing that cities change and there is an ebb and flow to every city of such a long period of time; Do you locals see the city as starting back into a growth era - will the 2010 census reveal population growth - how about jobs, etc. Personally, I am from Lexington and would have a much easier time getting a job in cinci than I would here an I know it was rated top 10 for new grads. but beyond that what generally feeling do you locals have about the future of Cincy.
there is a lot of development for those optimist to be excited about, but those with a more reserved or even pessimistic outlook - what do you think the problem is, what could Cinci do that isn't happening now? there truly is a alot of investment happening
Since this thread is about gentrification I wanted to pose the question of: what neighborhoods do you think will be on the receiving end (losing end) of the gentrification trend. OTR is changing, some tout the restoration of the west side, and i've seen talk of increased crime in the East.
~~ Over the course of the next 5 to ten years name your top 3-5 neighborhoods that will move up in terms of quality of the neighborhood, and also name your top 3-5 neighborhoods who will be brought down a step in terms of quality of the neighborhood overall (demographics, crime, employment, schools, restoration, architecture, etc.)
Ultimately my goal is to choose an area that is not too overpriced now that will be on the uptick over the next ten years. No I am not an aspiring slumlord, but there must be some multi-family housing somewhere in the city - right?
Right now I feel that OTR may well be the best opportunity if the renaissance continues and succeeds over time, but is a bit risky for my taste. As disclosure I will say - from an outsiders point of view - it seems to me that neighborhoods along Montgomery are good for such investment (Evanston, Norwood, Pleasant Ridge and on up - even potentially Walnut hills has outstanding potential even though it is not so nice now). These are working class areas - bordering nicer areas of town, etc.
Opinions?
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All "those people" getting pushed out gotta go somewhere, and in recent times that's translated into "across the viaducts."
