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If you are willing to settle for something less, a one car or a nor car home instead of a two-car garage, then maybe that is achievabled.
Not everyone needs or wants a two-car garage, or even a garage at all, or any of the other "benefits" of living in the 'burbs. It's not settling if you don't want it.
Not to mention that it's not impossible to find a two-car garage and a big yard in the city.
The 20-somethings want something simplier? Meaning, they do not want to work? If you want something for nothing, that is what you will get - nothing. If you are willing to settle for something less, a one car or a nor car home instead of a two-car garage, then maybe that is achievabled.
Not all do, but some. I can't really comment on your rant about people who don't want to work, I don't know where that came from. I would say there are more people in their 20s and 30s who measure success differently, a work to live philosophy rather than a live to work philosophy. It means being satisfied with what you have, not wanting something for nothing
But my cohort, I am late 20s married with a kid and we will not be living in the suburbs, and neither will any of my very normal friends. We aren't artsy or edgy or trendy, we just aren't interested in living in the suburbs. Reasons range from not wanting to drive more than 10 minutes to work, to wanting diversity, to liking older architecture. There are plenty of people in my age group who went straight to maineville but also plenty who did not.
I wouldn't waste to much brainpower thinking of reasons why the move back to cities isn't or shouldn't be occurring. The fact is, it is occurring, all over the country and all over the midwest. This shouldn't be threatening to anyone. It is a great thing to have back the cities our parents generation abandoned for a monoculture lawn and a two car garage.
spent some time in the incline district of price hill today. amazing views. the best i have seen from anywhere in the city, including mt adams. the neighborhood has a ways to go, you have half million dollar townhomes across from section 8s and nasty looking conversion vans.
very good pockets, few amenities compared with some place like mt lookout. the views will take people there, i think. wilson common could turn into a super-nice park, the open space is nice as it is though.
the physical divide between downtown and price hill is a little troubling to me. i don't know how much of that space is actively used and how much of it is unused and contaminated industrial sites. dire need for a good pedestrian and bike linkage at the very least.
some amazing architecture, some boring, but overall at least everything is there and still and in pretty good condition (as in, not about to fall over)
basic public infrastructure needs a little work. some simple improvements haven't been made that are still very much needed...of course, once more money moves in, these things will be demanded.
As for OTR it is a huge area. Pendleton is in great shape, The West End (Dayton street) is being bought mostly by downtown executive and professionals who still want their 5000 square ft homes. Betts Longworth has few unrestored buildinings left. 3CDC is marching up Vine and Main streets.
The plan for the new multi million dollar redo of Washington Park were just announced. No more swimming pool, no more basketball court. Being replaced with "Dog Parks' and Performance lawns ( a clear nod to the demographic coming in). Underground parking garage as well. Findlay Market is packed on the weekends and even during the week its getting busier. Rookwood Pottery is now in OTR. Remember OTR is a historic district and there are still hurdles to restore. Some investors simply want more than the properties are worth. I know, Ive been lookibg for a commercial building to move our Historic Consulting business , and historic interior design firm into for some time.
There is still alot to do but certainly not for lack of people trying and a high demand for the product being produced. The thing that is helping with all thats been done its raising values to where some of the "impossible' buildings are now becoming viable.
There are still bargains to be found, its just harder to find them these days.
spent some time in the incline district of price hill today. amazing views. the best i have seen from anywhere in the city, including mt adams. the neighborhood has a ways to go, you have half million dollar townhomes across from section 8s and nasty looking conversion vans.
I like that area as well , Incline is starting to attract some of the Mt Adams developer types who are running out of houses to "restore" (I use that term loosely) in Mt Adams
I also think the little pocket in Lower Price Hill around Neave and 8th has tremendous potential. Its like a little compact OTR about 4x4 blocks. Same architecure you find on Vine and Main Sreets but more residential rowhouses and townhouses, lots of corner store type buildings. It could be great little neighborhood. Needs a few more "pioneers", but you can get downtown in a couple of minutes. Still plentry of "riff-raff' but sems liek the slumlords are going under, Ass that easy credit in 202-2005 is now hitting to adjustables. Some really decent foreclosures have come up lately too.
In fact I looked at a place over there the day I bought the Second Empire in Knox Hill which as you know has a almost "county/urban feel" and I am a sucker for second empire architecture.
I'd like to see the eight street viaduct maybe some sort of more bike friendly, pedestrian friendly development. I dont know if the city has ever developed "real plans' for those uildings under the viaduct area. Could be trendy SOHO type area but the trains are a real problem.
I keep reading the forums and the comments from all of you touting the rebirth of the urban neighborhoods. Lord knows I hope you are right and it actually happens.
But excuse me if I elect to remain in my outer suburban neighborhood while I am still alive and kicking. There are just some problems I am not willing to fight.
My kids grew up here, and I remember how they would play football or softball in the back yard. It was not actually that large, but within their abilities.
Yes, I cut a lot of grass, gives me somethig to do. But the neighborhood is tranquil, free from most of the modern disturbances. Just what I like.
The rebirth of the urban neighborhoods may occur, but I do not think it will be as easy as some of you portray.
I keep reading the forums and the comments from all of you touting the rebirth of the urban neighborhoods. Lord knows I hope you are right and it actually happens.
But excuse me if I elect to remain in my outer suburban neighborhood while I am still alive and kicking. There are just some problems I am not willing to fight.
My kids grew up here, and I remember how they would play football or softball in the back yard. It was not actually that large, but within their abilities.
Yes, I cut a lot of grass, gives me somethig to do. But the neighborhood is tranquil, free from most of the modern disturbances. Just what I like.
The rebirth of the urban neighborhoods may occur, but I do not think it will be as easy as some of you portray.
I am genuinely sorry if any of my comments have come off as criticism of your life style. The point is that for too many years, there have been no reasonable city living options for most people. If we want our metro area to grow and thrive and remain relevant, we need to offer the lifestyle that people today demand. It shouldn't be, 'oh you want an urban lifestyle, you better move to columbus or indy because we can't offer that' -- it should be, you want an urban lifestyle, great, you will be welcomed, your kids will go to a great school, and you will find what you are looking for.
We're getting closer to that goal, but still have years to come. I think urban development efforts should be cheered by the suburbanites, it is in all of our interest, and no one is asking you to leave where you like living.
Lifelong Cincinnati residents act as though changing places like OTR or Avondale is IMPOSSIBLE. The fact is, these places have been rich before and will be rich again. It isn't easy, but it looks like the interest is there and this will happen, although who can say for timing.
I keep reading the forums and the comments from all of you touting the rebirth of the urban neighborhoods. Lord knows I hope you are right and it actually happens.
But excuse me if I elect to remain in my outer suburban neighborhood while I am still alive and kicking. There are just some problems I am not willing to fight.
I have lived in "up and coming" neighborhoods in the cities of Detroit, St. Louis, and Cleveland in the 80s. In all three cases, there were a dedicated number of pioneers promoting neighborhoods with "unique architecture", usually a few tax abatements, and usually terrible resale. And in return for buying a place in these areas, you have mediocre public services and schools. In the past year, I have been back to all of them and they are well, little changed after 25 years.
Even in Chicago, you see a certain trend. New graduates live in the city near all the bars and nightlife. Then they get married. After the first child, they move out of the city to get to decent schools, a nice yard, and a lower crime rate.
In my younger days, I was willing to put up with three crack houses in the neighborhood, dealing with corrupt politicians to resolve issues, having my house broken into, having someone blow out by windows with gunfire and the like. It was certainly a lot more exciting than the quiet house in the suburbs.
However, I am with Kjbrill. I would like to get my excitement watching COPS and live far away from the action.
Again, I hope your projections for the rebirth of the inner city come true. A total dynamic Cincy, close in urban and suburban is the best for everyone. I am just a little skeptic for what it is going to take to make it happen.
Even in Chicago, you see a certain trend. New graduates live in the city near all the bars and nightlife. Then they get married. After the first child, they move out of the city to get to decent schools, a nice yard, and a lower crime rate.
In my younger days, I was willing to put up with three crack houses in the neighborhood, dealing with corrupt politicians to resolve issues, having my house broken into, having someone blow out by windows with gunfire and the like. It was certainly a lot more exciting than the quiet house in the suburbs.
Well, this is Cincinnati, not Chicago. I don't know of even one person among those living in poor neighborhoods (where a house costs less than a nice new car) who has ever had gunfire come through their windows.
Here is a fact. Those neighborhoods sharing borders with the CBD have gentrified in most midwestern cities in the past 20 years. This hasn't happened yet in Cincinnati, except mount adams and arguably liberty hill. There is currently a ton of investment and the crime is nowhere near places like Chicago or even St Louis. Further, on the suburban pull, there is little opportunity to keep going out and finding new places to build. Mason barely existed twenty years ago and today places like Maineville are catching on, but at that point you get into a major trade off in terms of commute time versus yard size not to mention the financial mess these places put themselves in when they have sprawling infrastructure to support but not enough business base to support it. Part of me wonders if places like Pleasant Ridge, Golf manor, and Mt Washington will provide the perfect combo of people with kids looking for that yard and safety but no looking for the commute or the urban crime. The other side of that is gentrifying city neighborhoods will displace more section 8 in these places, and they still can't offer the fresh streets and stucco that Maineville has right now (and...in 50 years...what will happen when these places and hour away from the city are deteriorating?)
None of this even mentions the fact that you are more likely to die in a suburb than in even the worst ghetto, simply because of auto accidents. How many suburban high school kids die in car accidents each year in car crashes. Compare this with your upper-middle city schools like walnut hills.
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