Cincinnati Royals - Can the NBA return to Cincy? (Cleveland: neighborhood, casino)

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

I am not sure we are that small of a market. But I do agree if the taxpayers have to support the team like the Pacers in Indianapolis that is plain wrong. Historically the Reds have drawn quite a bit of their attendance from the surrounding area such as Dayton, Lexington, Columbus and points in between.

But with teams like Ohio State and UK why would anyone want to travel to Cincinnati to an NBA game?

A couple of reasons, kjbrill:

1. As difficult as it is to understand, some people may actually prefer NBA basketball to college basketball.

2. Ever tried to get a ticket to a UK game? Short answer: You can't.

3. Not everyone in Kentucky is a UK fan; not everyone in Ohio is an OSU fan. While those fan bases aren't limited to students and alumni, you do have to have some connection to the school in order to root for them.

4. The majority of college home games (even for UK and OSU) are the so-called "buy games" against cupcake competition. If you're in Dayton, are you really interested in driving to Columbus to see OSU play Jacksonville State, SC-Upstate, VMI or North Florida? (All of those lame schools, incidentally, are on the schedule this year.) Take a gander at OSU's schedule and tell me how many games you'd pay to see:

Ohio State Men's College Basketball - Buckeyes News, Scores, Videos - College Basketball - ESPN

Of the big games - Duke, Florida, Indiana - tickets were more difficult to obtain than admission into the Oval Office.

5. The NBA is more star-oriented. This means, even if the team coming to town is subpar, chances are they'll have a dynamic player who will attract interest. The LA Clippers have long been a laughingstock with barely any fans, but when they come to town who wouldn't want to see Blake Griffin?

[kjbrill]

I don't think it is a question of how many cities have a smaller metro area than ours with one or more major league teams (though I still have a hard time thinking of MLS as major league just because they proclaim it). The question is simply how much is it costing them?

A recent poster contends Indianapolis has to reimburse the pacers to $15 million a year just so they can maintain a league minimum payroll, in addition to building them an arena, paying all of the operating costs of the arena, and giving the Pacers all revenues from the arena. I have not attempted to confirm this, but if true it is rediculous.

We have likely seen the last of a star like Johnny Bench ever staying with one team his entire career. The whole structure of pro sports does not permit this. Why should fans be loyal to teams when teams can no longer be loyal to their fans?

It is time cities grew up and realized the posturing of we are a major league sports town is no longer their prime objective. The inflated costs of pro sports has made them a liability rather than an asset. Who cares if you have a shiny new convertible if everyone else does too, and the roof leaks.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Whoops, I forgot, I'm in a Cincinnati forum, so naturally some people will be touchy about making sure Dayton is counted in the metro population figures (while critiquing Portland since my profile says I'm from Oregon). Fine, go ahead, toss in Dayton, it doesn't matter. The NHL and NBA will look at it and see the immediate metro being barely big enough to handle the NFL and MLB, and risky to add a 3rd sport. Having Dayton nearby can be nice from a media territory standpoint (especially the NBA, not so much NHL because of the Blue Jackets), but it can't be counted on to carry a significant portion of the attendance, especially on weeknights.

For the record, I would be shocked if Portland got another team in the next decade, especially now that the MLS Timbers have taken off (fan-wise and corporate support),the appetite for public stadium subsidies is less than zero, and most leagues would be better off contracting teams instead of expanding at the moment. Oh well... like I said, it's awesome that you have the Reds (whom I'll be seeing on March 3rd) and the Bengals, so enjoy it.

[grmasterb]

Originally Posted by kjbrill

A recent poster contends Indianapolis has to reimburse the pacers to $15 million a year just so they can maintain a league minimum payroll, in addition to building them an arena, paying all of the operating costs of the arena, and giving the Pacers all revenues from the arena. I have not attempted to confirm this, but if true it is rediculous.

This is a pretty good summation of the deal the CIB has with the Pacers, which was an amendment to the current lease. Prior to this amendment, the Pacers paid all operating expenses related to the arena in return for the right to manage it and retain all revenues.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baske...97034823_x.htm

[Cleveland_Collector]

I think the biggest thing the big 4 goes by is the TV market area. And, yes, I agree that Portland is under-represented.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by motorman

Spare you in what way, my friend? What part of "Cin-Day" don't you understand? ()

Probably the same part of CAC (Cleveland-Akron-Canton) that most Daytonatians don't understand.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by abr7rmj

It's amazing that some people actually believe this. The following metro areas have one or more professional sports team and are smaller than Cincinnati:

- Cleveland (NFL, MLB, NBA)
- Kansas City (NFL, MLB, MLS)
- San Jose (NHL)
- Columbus (NHL, MLS)
- Charlotte (NFL, NBA)
- Indianapolis (NFL, NBA)
- Nashville (NFL, NHL)
- Milwaukee (MLB, NBA)
- Jacksonville (NFL)
- Memphis (NBA)
- Oklahoma City (NBA)
- New Orleans (NFL, NBA)
- Raleigh (NHL)
- Salt Lake City (NBA, MLS)

Table of United States Metropolitan Statistical Areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of course, you're free to go on thinking whatever you want.

Of course, you can't bear to mention that the inflated Cincy numbers require 3 states and about 16 counties to even compare in that conversation.

Try the TV markets, if you want the proper perspective from how the Big 4 views it.

Top 100 Television Markets - Station Index

1. NYC (7/4 and soon to be 8/4 when the Nets move to Brooklyn...not that it matters as Newark is already part of NYC anyway (well, practically))
.
3. Chicago (5/4)
.
11. Detroit (4/4)
.
.
16. Cleveland (3/4)
.
.
21. St. Louis (3/4)
22. Portland (1/4)
.
.
25. Indianapolis (2/4)

27. Raleigh-Durham (0/4)

.
32. Columbus (1/4)
33. Salt Lake City (1/4)
34. Cincinnati (2/4)
35. Milwaukee (2/4)

Of course, you're free to keep kidding yourself.

[abr7rmj]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Of course, you can't bear to mention that the inflated Cincy numbers require 3 states and about 16 counties to even compare in that conversation.

Try the TV markets, if you want the proper perspective from how the Big 4 views it.

Top 100 Television Markets - Station Index

1. NYC (7/4 and soon to be 8/4 when the Nets move to Brooklyn...not that it matters as Newark is already part of NYC anyway (well, practically))
.
3. Chicago (5/4)
.
11. Detroit (4/4)
.
.
16. Cleveland (3/4)
.
.
21. St. Louis (3/4)
22. Portland (1/4)
.
.
25. Indianapolis (2/4)

27. Raleigh-Durham (0/4)

.
32. Columbus (1/4)
33. Salt Lake City (1/4)
34. Cincinnati (2/4)
35. Milwaukee (2/4)

Of course, you're free to keep kidding yourself.

Seriously dude? No one defends Cleveland more on this site than me, but I dare point out that the Cincinnati metro is larger (and growing) and you flip out?

Hysterical. And typical.

And what difference does it make that Cincinnati's metro population is spread out over three states? Other than the fact that it's an inconvenient reality for you, that is. Some other metros that you may have heard of are also comprised of population spread out over multiple states and counties, including NYC (New York, Connecticut, New Jersey, parts of Pennsylvania); St. Louis (Missouri, Illinois); Philadelphia (Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey) and others. You yourself admitted that "Newark is already part of NYC anyways," but you don't think northern Kentucky is part of Cincinnati? Just absurd.

The northern Kentucky population is every bit a part of the Cincinnati metro, as most of those people wouldn't live there if it wasn't for the Cincinnati market. And the reason that Cincinnati's TV market number isn't higher is because the long-established Dayton TV market encroaches into much of what would easily be Cincy TV households. For example, Springboro is about 34 miles from Cincinnati. That distance would EASILY be part of any other city's TV market, including Cleveland's. But Springboro is part of the Dayton TV market. If you take away the Dayton stations and make it one TV market, it would shoot far, far up that list.

That being said, I love Cleveland; it's one of my favorite cities.

[motorman]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Probably the same part of CAC (Cleveland-Akron-Canton) that most Daytonatians don't understand.

Cleveland_Collector, you might be surprised, but for many of us, the images of Cleveland (and its satellite cities) have always been ones of industrial might and cultural abundance--as it still is today. Your city is one to admire because so many steps are being taken to revitalize it and make it great once again.

[unusualfire]

Here is extortion for you. The NBA is giving Sacramento 14 days to come up with a plan to keep The Kings in town. Seattle to going to build a new arena and take the Kings.

Seattle Mayor Making ‘Major Announcement’ About City’s Arena Plan « CBS Sacramento