Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Universalism is a false gospel, a doctrine of demons, teaching falsely that God desires all men everywhere to believe on Jesus Christ for Salvation, or that all men will eventually believe on Jesus Christ for Salvation in some after life experience which is nothing but a figment of their darkrn understanding/mind, but the real truth is, as the Lord and His Apostles preached, there be some people that God purposed for them to hear the Gospel, the Word of Christ, and thereby be disobedient, advancing their worthiness for everlasting destruction, 1 Pet 2:8
8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word[Christ], being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Its a THEM God has appointed to stumble at the word, the Logos, the essential word, which is Christ, they were appointed to disobey, to be confirmed in unbelief.
In the original the phrase "whereunto also they were appointed." is in the passive voice they were destined by God to disobey and perish.
1 Pet 4:17
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
Now the false witnessing of universalism will tell us that Gods purpose will change for the reprobate, and they will be given faith to believe and be saved, making God out to be some schizophrenic, who cant make up his mind on the destiny of his creatures.
However God has predetermined the outcome of them He appointed to disobey the Gospel 2 Thess 1:7-9
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Now this is predetermined by God, but the universalist denies !
Hi I don't speak against God and the scriptures. My belief comes from the scriptures. I use to believe in eternal hell, but God showed me in His word, that He is able to accomplish His own will in His own creation. God bless.
You do speak against God. You speak against God for not saving all. You have said some bad things concerning Him for that. You also try to get others to not believe what He says.
As one believer put it, it actually dethrones the power of God to suggest that the so called free will of any man can thwart the plans of the Creator
What dethrones the Cross of Christ is you saying that people Christ died for are in this world #1 Condemned by God, #2 Under Gods Wrath, thats saying that Christs death meant absolutely nothing for them before the Law and Justice of God.
You do speak against God. You speak against God for not saving all. You have said some bad things concerning Him for that. You also try to get others to not believe what He says.
Hi, I have not share bad things about God. I only share that I believe that the scriptures teach that God will accomplish His own will for His own creation. Jesus prayed for the Father's will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. I share my beliefs based on God's word just as everyone shares their beliefs. This is a thread that discusses the pros and cons of Universalism and I am posting the pros based on the scriptures. Have a blessed day.
"While God is so often portrayed as an all-powerful, but helpless giant, the devil is portrayed as being NEARLY as powerful as God Himself. But his advantage is that he cares nothing about man's free will. He is said to have a free hand in manipulating and causing men to sin in ways that God could never do to establish righteousness. In the way many Christians have been taught to view these age-old questions, Satan seems to fail far less than God does. And finally, when it is all over, Satan wins with 99% of mankind, while God is left with a paltry 1-10% of creation with which to populate the kingdom of light. This was essentially the position of Augustine in his City of God, where history ends with a final separation of light and darkness, with Satan being a success (and punished for it!), while God is viewed as the sore loser-thus, the sinner, the helpless Giant who failed. This view of both God and Satan has serious flaws that need to be rectified by some serious Bible study."
Dr. Stephen Jones, Creation's Jubilee
Most Christians believe that God offers salvation to everyone but that man's free will will prevent the majority from being saved from what is believed to be eternal hell. Jesus came to save His people from their sins. All people belong to Jesus as all were made through Him and He is heir of all. Hebrews 1, Colossians 1. Salvation from sin is being made whole, healed from sin which has infected the creation. Christians are being saved today in this present evil age as we are trusting in Jesus and walking in the light. Jesus was sent on a mission to be the savior of the world.
Sent- apostello-to send forth on a certain mission
1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent His Son to be the Savior of the world.
Do you believe that Jesus will fail in this mission?
I believe that Jesus will accomplish this mission in all ways. Believers are being saved now and ultimately the rest will be saved when Jesus subjects all things to Himself. Jesus said that He came to bring fire to the earth. Fire brings destruction and it also brings change. The old must be done away with to make the new.
Some people believe that Jesus only came for those the elect but this is not what the scriptures teach.
1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
The world rightfully belongs to Jesus as all were made for Him and He has been made heir of all. (Colossians 1, Hebrews 1) He does not leave the majority to end up in an eternal hell or in an eternal death. Neither eternal hell or eternal death make sense because the word eternal describes something without beginning or end. Only the Father is without beginning or end. God bless
2 And you [a]were dead [b]in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the [c]course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, [d]indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
All were once condemned, the children of wrath, lost, enemies of God, sons of disobedience. Jesus.
Ephesians 2
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
Those who were once dead in transgressions were made alive together with Jesus Christ and raised up with Him, seated in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
As the Bible says, God "hates ALL who work iniquity." Now, be very careful with that statement. I have heard theologians get slippery here. If a Christian gets out of line and begins to declare that God loves the whole world enough to save it all through Christ, they will whip out that scripture and slam it on the table. Psalm 5:5 clearly and plainly states: God hates ALL who work iniquity. That leaves us in an interesting situation with Scripture. Paul said it very plainly:
Rom 3:23
ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short of the glory of God;
Isa 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned EVERY ONE to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. That means you. That means me. That means "every one." That means, according to the Bible, God hates ALL, because ALL have been "workers of iniquity." Are you with me so far?
2 Corinthians 5:14
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead.
Everyone was dead in sin. However, Paul said: when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. (Romans 5:6). That is quite loving, no? If theologians interpret God's hate as being an emotional reaction, which would AS A RESULT, preclude him from loving too much, what is going on here? Would God send his Son to die for people he hates, or people he loves?
As a human, have you ever HATED anyone? I mean have you felt that hot poison in your stomach? Have you then been able to emotionally love that same person that you would kill your child for them? It's a bit hard to imagine isn't it? That's because God's ways are higher than our ways. Even his hatred is higher.
God hated this world of sinners, yet he loved those same sinners. From a human emotional perspective, it is a contradiction. Ancient Semitic people understood exactly how these love/hate statements were intended according to their language traditions: "the language of absoluteness to express a preference."
Regarding God's hate to Esau, Vincent's Word Studies has this to say:
The expression (hatred) is intentionally strong as an expression of moral antipathy. Compare Mat 6:24; Luk 14:26. No idea of malice is implied of course.
The Barnes Commentary on the Bible has this to say:
"Have I hated" - This does not mean any positive hatred; but that he had preferred Jacob, and had withheld from Esau those privileges and blessings which he had conferred on the posterity of Jacob.
This is explained in Mal 1:3, "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness;” compare Jeremiah 49:17-18; Ezekiel 35:6
It was common among the Hebrews to use the terms “love” and “hatred” in this comparative sense, where the former implied strong positive attachment, and the latter, not positive hatred, but merely a less love, or the withholding of the expressions of affection;
Compare Gen_29:30-31; Pro_13:24: “He that spareth his rod hateth his son; but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes;” Mat_6:24, “No man can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other,” etc.; Luk_14:26, “if any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, etc.”
So "love" and "hate" are not only linguistic exaggerations, common for Hebrews of the time, but are an expression of preference which do not necessarily imply a visceral emotional reaction. So God chose/loved Jacob, and God hated/did-not-choose Esau. Merciful Truth
God chooses a certain group of people, believers, the saints, the first fruits, the elect, the sone of God, to be His lights in the dark world. These people are chosen by God to be a blessing to others.
Will you be a part of the high calling of God? What a tremendous blessing that God will take these imperfect jars of clay and use them for His glorious purposes.
Philippians 3:13-15
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus
Notes: The "high calling" is the prize. The prize, the reward, the inheritance, is the "high calling." The prize is not a new gold harp on cloud nine. It is not the biggest new mansion next door to Jesus. It is a high calling. And it lies not in these present wicked times, but is something Paul "pressed toward the mark" for in the glory of the coming ages. It is this high calling that Paul waits so eagerly for with great expectation and hope for the future. S. Tipton
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the Sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Romans 8:18-24
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
1 Peter 4:13
Instead, be very glad--because these trials will make you partners with Christ in his suffering, and afterward you will have the wonderful joy of sharing his glory when it is displayed to all the world.
1 Corinthians 6:2-3
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Don't you realize that we will judge angels?
3 Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 [a]Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. 3 For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
5 Therefore [b]consider the members of your earthly body as dead to [c]immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which [d]amounts to idolatry. 6 For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come [e]upon the sons of disobedience, 7 and in them you also once walked, when you were living [f]in them. 8 But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. 9 [g]Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old [h]self with its evil practices, 10 and have put on the new self who is being [i]renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him— 11 a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, [j]barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.
12 So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and [k]patience; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you. 14 Beyond all these things put on love, which is [l]the perfect bond of unity. 15 Let the peace of Christ [m]rule in your hearts, to which [n]indeed you were called in one body; and [o]be thankful. 16 Let the word of [p]Christ richly dwell within you, [q]with all wisdom teaching and admonishing [r]one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing [s]with thankfulness in your hearts to God. 17 Whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father. NASB
As the Bible says, God "hates ALL who work iniquity." Now, be very careful with that statement. I have heard theologians get slippery here. If a Christian gets out of line and begins to declare that God loves the whole world enough to save it all through Christ, they will whip out that scripture and slam it on the table. Psalm 5:5 clearly and plainly states: God hates ALL who work iniquity. That leaves us in an interesting situation with Scripture. Paul said it very plainly:
Rom 3:23
ALL HAVE SINNED, and come short of the glory of God;
Isa 53:6
All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned EVERY ONE to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. That means you. That means me. That means "every one." That means, according to the Bible, God hates ALL, because ALL have been "workers of iniquity." Are you with me so far?
2 Corinthians 5:14
For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead.
Everyone was dead in sin. However, Paul said: when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. (Romans 5:6). That is quite loving, no? If theologians interpret God's hate as being an emotional reaction, which would AS A RESULT, preclude him from loving too much, what is going on here? Would God send his Son to die for people he hates, or people he loves?
As a human, have you ever HATED anyone? I mean have you felt that hot poison in your stomach? Have you then been able to emotionally love that same person that you would kill your child for them? It's a bit hard to imagine isn't it? That's because God's ways are higher than our ways. Even his hatred is higher.
God hated this world of sinners, yet he loved those same sinners. From a human emotional perspective, it is a contradiction. Ancient Semitic people understood exactly how these love/hate statements were intended according to their language traditions: "the language of absoluteness to express a preference."
Regarding God's hate to Esau, Vincent's Word Studies has this to say:
The expression (hatred) is intentionally strong as an expression of moral antipathy. Compare Mat 6:24; Luk 14:26. No idea of malice is implied of course.
The Barnes Commentary on the Bible has this to say:
"Have I hated" - This does not mean any positive hatred; but that he had preferred Jacob, and had withheld from Esau those privileges and blessings which he had conferred on the posterity of Jacob.
This is explained in Mal 1:3, "And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness;” compare Jeremiah 49:17-18; Ezekiel 35:6
It was common among the Hebrews to use the terms “love” and “hatred” in this comparative sense, where the former implied strong positive attachment, and the latter, not positive hatred, but merely a less love, or the withholding of the expressions of affection;
Compare Gen_29:30-31; Pro_13:24: “He that spareth his rod hateth his son; but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes;” Mat_6:24, “No man can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other,” etc.; Luk_14:26, “if any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, etc.”
So "love" and "hate" are not only linguistic exaggerations, common for Hebrews of the time, but are an expression of preference which do not necessarily imply a visceral emotional reaction. So God chose/loved Jacob, and God hated/did-not-choose Esau. Merciful Truth
God chooses a certain group of people, believers, the saints, the first fruits, the elect, the sone of God, to be His lights in the dark world. These people are chosen by God to be a blessing to others.
Will you be a part of the high calling of God? What a tremendous blessing that God will take these imperfect jars of clay and use them for His glorious purposes.
Philippians 3:13-15
Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus
Notes: The "high calling" is the prize. The prize, the reward, the inheritance, is the "high calling." The prize is not a new gold harp on cloud nine. It is not the biggest new mansion next door to Jesus. It is a high calling. And it lies not in these present wicked times, but is something Paul "pressed toward the mark" for in the glory of the coming ages. It is this high calling that Paul waits so eagerly for with great expectation and hope for the future. S. Tipton
1 John 3:1
Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the Sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
Romans 8:18-24
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.
1 Peter 4:13
Instead, be very glad--because these trials will make you partners with Christ in his suffering, and afterward you will have the wonderful joy of sharing his glory when it is displayed to all the world.
1 Corinthians 6:2-3
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Don't you realize that we will judge angels?
God bless.
Does God love the workers of iniquity here ? Ps 5:5
5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
