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Old 07-01-2022, 05:58 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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This is a nice conversation between Alisa Childers and Lee Strobel on heaven, hell, torture vs torment, Annihilationism, eternal punishment, descriptions of hell being metaphoric, what about those who have never heard the gospel, etc. If interested give it a listen.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqzdPL_OGE8
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Old 07-01-2022, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Free State of Texas
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Good stuff, Mike. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 07-02-2022, 07:02 AM
 
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Hmm, so people that exercise their free will, (but make the WRONG choice)...are tortured, tormented, punished for eternity?


Oh yes, and all the punishment comes in forms that effect the physical body too...like fire burning, teeth gnashing, etc? LOL


Would this eternal punishment instead be a torture of our spirits/souls, and not our physical bodies?
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Old 07-02-2022, 08:30 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
Hmm, so people that exercise their free will, (but make the WRONG choice)...are tortured, tormented, punished for eternity?


Oh yes, and all the punishment comes in forms that effect the physical body too...like fire burning, teeth gnashing, etc? LOL


Would this eternal punishment instead be a torture of our spirits/souls, and not our physical bodies?
Did you even listen to what they were saying?
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Old 07-02-2022, 08:31 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Good stuff, Mike. Thanks for sharing.
You're welcome, Jimmie.
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Old 07-02-2022, 11:00 AM
 
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Soft selling hell to keep their book sales intact and lecture circuit money coming in. Hell sells -- but Jesus saves.
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Old 07-02-2022, 11:02 AM
 
Location: TEXAS
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Originally Posted by wellsmaine View Post
Soft selling hell to keep their book sales intact and lecture circuit money coming in. Hell sells -- but Jesus saves.
yup - went on and on about NDE's (nothing profound) for 24 min before even beginning to get to the point!

Michael, what did you find new/interesting in the video ?
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Old 07-02-2022, 02:19 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
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Originally Posted by CCCyou View Post
yup - went on and on about NDE's (nothing profound) for 24 min before even beginning to get to the point!

Michael, what did you find new/interesting in the video ?
I found most of it interesting. I agree that the fire imagery is metaphorical rather than literal. 'Hell' described both as a lake of fire and as the 'outer darkness' strongly suggests metaphorical language is being used. The essence of eternal punishment is separation from all that is good, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his power as Paul said in 2 Thess 1:9. The torment is internally generated rather than external torture.

I also agree that there is a possibility that those who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel might be given a chance to hear it and respond to it after death.
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Old 07-02-2022, 02:52 PM
 
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Part of the problem is the idea of 'hell' is ambiguous.

Is it Dante's inferno? Pitchforks and demons? Skin being ripped off like Bill Wiese describes?

Is it just 'the grave' as described in the Old Testament?
Is it 'gehenna' as Jesus referred to as a place of judgment?
Is it 'the lake of fire' or other fire references?

Biblically 'hell' is thrown into the lake of fire, so we know they are different.

This video gives a very interesting take on it all.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F27jxwHDrzM&t=2s
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Old 07-02-2022, 02:53 PM
 
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The NDE aspect is also very interesting. In every case where the person experienced torment in their NDE - the torment lasted until they called out for help - then they felt overwhelming peace.
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