English Avenue, the Bluff, whatever you want to call it (Atlanta: apartment, rent)

[Atlwarrior]

Originally Posted by arjay57

All this speculation reminds me of the real estate run-up during the late 90s - early 2000s. Prices were going up, up, up and you couldn't go wrong.

That was due to subprime lending, the mortgage standards underwriting and approval of credit has changed dramatically since then.

[Clayton white guy]

I taught at the old Coan Middle School in Atlanta in Dekalb (Edgewood/ Kirkwood line) 13 years ago. The change in the community since then is incredible. By the way, I would in include Kirkwood, Eastlake, AND EAST ATLANTA in the incredible metamorphosis. Perhaps the earlier poster's memory doesn't go as far back as mine. If anything, Edgewood is the hold back in the old Sammye Elizabeth Coan Middle district, in my opinion.

I will also say that, perhaps not quite as much price appreciation, but the downtown cores of College Park and East Point are also on the upswing. (think Jefferson Park in East Point) I will admit that the Rugby Avenue corridor of College Park and the surrounding historic district has always been that city's "favored quarter", but the transformation of the College Park Main Street business corridor to include several interesting restaurants and shops is a positive development. There is also a BIG difference between Downtown College Park and its surrounding historic residential district and the "rest" of College Park south of the airport. "South of Hartsfield College Park" certainly has struggled in many ways and perhaps is a drag on appreciation for the City of College Park as a whole.

[thirdiii94]

I stay in and around these areas. English Avenue + Vine City are without a doubt some of the more tougher neighborhoods in the city but they are definitely improving. Vine City is further along than English Ave though. The southern edge of the neighborhood near the Mercedes Benz Stadium is the nicest section in my opinion. Just on James P. alone in Vine City there are several newly built houses that APD lives in. Kennedy middle school is finally active again, now as an innovative academy. All the burnt down apartments across the street from the middle school have also been torn down. The abandoned apartments that used to be on MLK near Morris Brown stadium have been torn down as well. They’ve also built a new community resource center on Ashby in Vine City. Not to mention, the big Rodney Cook Sr. park being built that will have water features similar to Historic Old Fourth Ward Park and that will also serve to help with flooding issues that wiped out about 80 houses in the neighborhood back in 2002.

As for English Avenue, it is further behind on the gentrification but it’s still coming along slowly but surely. Compared to just 5 years ago, the neighborhood is way less blighted. So many abandoned/burned down houses & apartments have been torn over the past few years which has created a lot of empty lots in the neighborhood. English Avenue added its first park in 2015 and they just started building another bigger park last year. They’re planning a huge apartment development on the northern end of the neighborhood which will add hundreds of residents. Trash is still an issue but it’s way less severe than it used to be. I also don’t see as many stray animals. APD also added cameras on several of the hotter corners in the Bluff, which i’m not a fan of but it has had an effect on hustlers trapping on the corners. The intersection of Chestnut and Kennedy used to be extremely active just a few years ago. Most gang tags have been covered up with colorful murals painted by local residents. Houses are being renovated every time i walk around the hood which I’m glad of because there are actually some decent older homes found in the neighborhood. The drug addicts are still very prevalent in the area but that’s because the heroin in the area is very prevalent. That’ll change as the neighborhood improves and prices start to change. The upcoming Kudzu line trail will be a good addition too.

Many people hardy ever come through here or if they do then they just ride through a few streets with their cars so they don’t really understand what’s going on. There’s no way you can get the full story of a neighborhood from cruising in a vehicle. Until you actually walk on the streets, take it in, and actually talk to the neighbors and residents, then you’re only getting a very narrow scope. Neighborhoods in Atlanta vary block to block and even street to street so it’s best not to judge the neighborhood’s book by its cover. Yes the neighborhoods are rough but people who really know these neighborhoods will tell you how far they’ve improved. Look at Howell Station which borders English Avenue. That neighborhood was considered “ghetto” a few years ago and now there are modern houses built, the Beltline coming through, and the biggest city park planned to open soon. Do not sleep on the westside. The transformation will be incredible.

[oldschoolChevy]

Originally Posted by thirdiii94

Many people hardy ever come through here or if they do then they just ride through a few streets with their cars so they don’t really understand what’s going on. There’s no way you can get the full story of a neighborhood from cruising in a vehicle. Until you actually walk on the streets, take it in, and actually talk to the neighbors and residents, then you’re only getting a very narrow scope. Neighborhoods in Atlanta vary block to block and even street to street so it’s best not to judge the neighborhood’s book by its cover. Yes the neighborhoods are rough but people who really know these neighborhoods will tell you how far they’ve improved. Look at Howell Station which borders English Avenue. That neighborhood was considered “ghetto” a few years ago and now there are modern houses built, the Beltline coming through, and the biggest city park planned to open soon. Do not sleep on the westside. The transformation will be incredible.

You can't compare the Bluff to Howell Station though, so I wouldn't use that as an example for future real estate trends. Those 2 are totally different neighborhoods, only similarities that they share are being in close proximity to one another. First off Howell Station was never the "hood" or the "ghetto", it was always a lower middle income area, but not poverty stricken and free of the drugs and robbery of some of the other Westside neighborhoods. Just like Riverside/Bolton, just like Howell Mill (Which wasn't even considered the West until 10-15 years ago), and to a lesser extent the West End. All of those areas were never that bad, which is funny because those are the areas on the West that have gentrified first. Don't think that all the areas on the Westside are equal in terms of roughness, because there is for sure a pecking order on that totem pole. Howell Station would be at the top, the Bluff right next door would be at the bottom. Totally different ends of the spectrum. You're trying to compare a sleepy in the cut neighborhood like Howell Station whose worst problem for years was just residents complaining about Halfway Houses on their block to an area that is pretty much a free for all drug zone along the lines of a real life Hampsterdam from Season 3 of the Wire, and has been that way since Frank Mathews came down from NYC and flooded it with dope over 40 years ago.

Me personally I'm skeptical about the Bluff, I still see tons of J's (drug addicts) over there, I still see more than a few rural and exurban GA county and Tenn/Alabama plates making turns off Hollowell (Bankhead) or Boone (Simpson) to go into the Bluff, and last I checked the Bluff was by itself still the source of most of the Heroin and Fentanyl in the south. Pretty much everywhere that's not on a port like New Orleans or Miami, gets their heroin from the Bluff. I grew up down the street from it, I couldn't tell you how many times some out of towner with the bags under their eyes and the shakes stopped and asked me or some of my friends for directions on how to get to JPB. And looking at how much of a problem opiates are in rural areas now, I'd say the Bluff is pumping dope harder than ever before. And to use your term, don't sleep, we are talking about a product that people addicted to it spend over 50K a year on to support their habit. And just one pound of it costs more than most people make in a year. I don't think its a stretch to say that people who sell it have the cash flow to buy a house or 2 over there along with paying off some police as well. Cleaning up the Bluff will be a lot harder than some of you think. I personally think it'll take at least a decade to turn the corner, probably more. We'll have 2 more recessions in the time it takes to clean that area up.

[aries4118]

English Avenue —> Western Heights


Under “History”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englis...ty?wprov=sfti1

[Space_League]

It's weird how the only thing separating this area from Georgia Tech gentry / Westside Provisions yuppies is just some train tracks

https://goo.gl/maps/KmDLsdqDy3R2

[red92s]

Originally Posted by arjay57

All this speculation reminds me of the real estate run-up during the late 90s - early 2000s. Prices were going up, up, up and you couldn't go wrong.

Well at the time they were going up, up, up because you could get a loan without verifying your income. It's sort of a different situation when values are being driven by fundamental and tangible changes in the area like major construction projects and new amenities that have been announced or broken ground. That's still obviously speculative, but less so than banking on real estate values going up perpetually and being able to refinance your ARM in a few years before the rate adjusts.

[Gulch]

Originally Posted by red92s

Well at the time they were going up, up, up because you could get a loan without verifying your income. It's sort of a different situation when values are being driven by fundamental and tangible changes in the area like major construction projects and new amenities that have been announced or broken ground. That's still obviously speculative, but less so than banking on real estate values going up perpetually and being able to refinance your ARM in a few years before the rate adjusts.

ARM = Always Ripoff Mortgage

[ATLTJL]

It's sort of a different situation when values are being driven by fundamental and tangible changes in the are

That's only true if you believe the last dip was due to foreclosures.

Certainly, they didn't help the situation... but prices were going to crash down even if nobody foreclosed, in my opinion. Fundamentals are different now, but that doesn't mean things can't come down almost as much as they did.

I personally can't foresee a day where a 1/8 acre parcel of land in the Bluff will be worth $100k. Maybe in 30 years. But probably not even then.

[waronxmas]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

I thought we were in Vine City, but looking at the map, we were actually in the Bluff quarter. I also laughed about why not just buy a house for 30 grand and sit on it. If the area gentrifies, go fix it up and live there... if not, just write it off as bad investment. So I came home to do a little research, and discovered how wrong I was.

I know you were joking, but this is actually reason why that neighborhood is taking so long to rebound. Most of parcels are owned by speculators (and slum lords) waiting to cash in on the inevitable gentrification. They are not trying to break even.