Commuter Rail along the I-10 (Phoenix, Tucson: 2013, lease, vehicle registration)

[Prickly Pear]

Would you support this idea? One from Tucson to maybe Buckeye? With a stop maybe around Downtown Tucson, Eloy, Casa Grande, one near maybe Warner Road, a Downtown stop, one around maybe Avondale, and another near Buckeye?

Honestly the idea seems to make sense. Arizona is still a fast growing state and I think we could benefit from it in the future. Places with smaller populations like Salt Lake City, Albuquerque, all have commuter rails. Salt Lake Coty's commuter rail is actually well-run and highly praised.

One benefit to a commuter rail in this corridor is not just that most people in Arizona live near it is that there is already a rail system that runs along side the freeway. I know Utah bought the right of way for their commuter rail which significantly reduced costs since they didn't have to build a new rail line. Arizona could benefit from this possibility as well.

What do you think?

[Hschlick84]

Who will pay for it? Will it be a privately ran business or publicly funded through tax payers?

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Who will pay for it? Will it be a privately ran business or publicly funded through tax payers?

No and yes. It wouldn't be profitable as would either turn into a subsidized money sink, or run by a state agency. Public transportation doesn't work in the free market or we'd have it.


I would support it.

I would hope the state/municipalities would try to gain full access to Federal Grants to ease the cost, but they've been concerned with States rights bills lately claiming the Federal Governmemt coerces them.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Who will pay for it? Will it be a privately ran business or publicly funded through tax payers?

As JG mentioned, public transportation has never been profitable. Don't quote me on the time frame but I believe exactly a century ago or so things like rail cars were ran by private businesses... They were made public when the companies would fight over the "profitable" routes and ignored parts of town that needed it but were deemed unprofitable. It was rather conclusive with a lot of communities at the time that public transportation was best off without competitors, and ran by the government.

I wouldn't be opposed to this being a private business but like I said, I doubt it would be significantly profitable to the point of supporting its own overhead, etc.

Public transportation helps attract businesses (they do these days anyway) and will help reduce commute times. I see such an idea particularly benefitting West Valley and people in Casa Grande, or anyone who does business in both. The I-10 is only getting worse, I remember when it was just over an hour to get between Tucson and Phoenix and now it is reliably two hours. The freeway has a lot of trucks, a lot of out of staters, and a lot of people who drive too slow (below the speed limit FYI). Some parts of the I-10 are reliably bad, like just before Ahwatukee, right after Casa Grande on the way to Tucson, near the date farms, etc. I've driven this route way too many times, even at night it tends to clog up in these spots.

Building a foundation for commuter rail could be even more useful if California decides it would like to link up with us on the High Speed Rail, they already have plans to extend to Vegas so the idea isn't entirely out of reach.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by :-D

One benefit to a commuter rail in this corridor is not just that most people in Arizona live near it is that there is already a rail system that runs along side the freeway. I know Utah bought the right of way for their commuter rail which significantly reduced costs since they didn't have to build a new rail line. Arizona could benefit from this possibility as well.

What do you think?

The impression I got from the ADOT feasibility study of this project is that the commuter rail from Phoenix to Tucson (if it ever gets built) wouldn't share the current rail line along I-10, but they would build their own line right next to the freight lines in the same ROW. Companies like BNSF Railway, Norfolk Southern Railway, Union Pacific Railroad, etc. hate sharing their lines with public transportation (even though they receive lease money), plus they have priority over any public train on their lines, that's why Amtrak is so late/delayed when using rail lines they don't own.


Passenger Rail Study: Tucson to Phoenix

[Hschlick84]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

No and yes. It wouldn't be profitable as would either turn into a subsidized money sink, or run by a state agency. Public transportation doesn't work in the free market or we'd have it.


I would support it.

I would hope the state/municipalities would try to gain full access to Federal Grants to ease the cost, but they've been concerned with States rights bills lately claiming the Federal Governmemt coerces them.

If people support a measure, could it be up for vote as a Referendum on a ballot for November 2017 as a tax on vehicle registration to pay for such a project through Valley Metro? Here in Denver, we pay RTD through vehicle registration, most of it covers the costs for light rail and RTD buses. I voted maybe.

[KurtAZ]

Why would I want to pay for transportation I would never use?

And wouldn't this just encourage more sprawl only now down the 1-10 corridor?

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by KurtAZ

Why would I want to pay for transportation I would never use?

And wouldn't this just encourage more sprawl only now down the 1-10 corridor?

I would like to see it connect to the existing line and run along the belt loops (202/10/101/17/60).

A line to Tucson makes sense if you live in Tucson but not vice versa which is why that probably won't happen.

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

If people support a measure, could it be up for vote as a Referendum on a ballot for November 2017 as a tax on vehicle registration to pay for such a project through Valley Metro? Here in Denver, we pay RTD through vehicle registration, most of it covers the costs for light rail and RTD buses. I voted maybe.

It's possible, but I don't see increasing vehicle registration costs as a popular idea. If you've registered a car here, it's already expensive.

It could be done like the SR Loops were built, via HURF from municipalities, and other programs as ADOT currently uses.

As long as we have an admin like Ducey it would be funded through consumption taxes in some manner.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

The impression I got from the ADOT feasibility study of this project is that the commuter rail from Phoenix to Tucson (if it ever gets built) wouldn't share the current rail line along I-10, but they would build their own line right next to the freight lines in the same ROW. Companies like BNSF Railway, Norfolk Southern Railway, Union Pacific Railroad, etc. hate sharing their lines with public transportation (even though they receive lease money), plus they have priority over any public train on their lines, that's why Amtrak is so late/delayed when using rail lines they don't own.


Passenger Rail Study: Tucson to Phoenix

That's possible.

With that image it could cost more to do the yellow or the orange. I could see why there would be a hesitation to do the green because A) it doesn't support SE Valley (would help to get it passed) and B) it goes through the reservation which could be costly.

I find it interesting that they proposed a spur onto Grand Avenue. I think that could be really useful, it would only need to reach the Eastern edges of Surprise and it would help the majority of West Valley that way.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by :-D

That's possible.

With that image it could cost more to do the yellow or the orange. I could see why there would be a hesitation to do the green because A) it doesn't support SE Valley (would help to get it passed) and B) it goes through the reservation which could be costly.

I find it interesting that they proposed a spur onto Grand Avenue. I think that could be really useful, it would only need to reach the Eastern edges of Surprise and it would help the majority of West Valley that way.

Another Negative for Green is it doesn't connect to Phoenix Gateway Airport. Both airports connected by train would be very interesting.