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Definately Canada.
Canada is much more relaxed than the US and has a laissez faire attitude towards social issues (gay marriage, alcohol, drug use, prostitution).
Most of the US is too socially conservative and religious, it would drive me nuts being preached to what I can and can't do in my private life. Really, I don't think that has anything to do with the government or indeed anyone else!
I also find that many Americans seem to think that 2 types of people exist in the world, Americans and people who wish they were American.
Just curious, for those in this thread. Where do you currently live? Have you lived in both countries at any point? Not judging, genuinely wondering.
I think a visit, not matter how long or how frequent, won't give you a true idea of what each country is like.
I live in the UK but lived in Canada for many years.
I disagree with your assertion that you can't get a true idea of what a country is like by visiting it.
Maybe not by visiting once, but several times to different parts?
Sometimes you just get a good feeling in your bones about a place as I have with places like France, Germany and Sweden. I know I could live there quite happily.
In the US I didn't get the same feeling. As I said, I found it far too conservative for my liking, to the point I have felt somewhat uncomfortable. Even NY I don't find that socially liberal. Not to the extent London, Toronto or Paris is.
Some people said that the US has the concept of "We're all Americans, no matter the race". That might be true in theory, but I have met enough people who'd say that only those with a European background are true Americans and many for whom race is a BIG thing. It might be African American or Asian American (instead of Kenyan or Korean), but it is pretty much the same thing that someone in this thread criticized about Canada.
Well, I won't get into a pissing match about which country treats its minorities better. It's hard to determine such things because there are so many variables. And like a previous poster said, you can't really know the details about these things unless you've lived in both countries for an appreciable period of time.
As far as whites being the only true Americans, there are some people who think that way. However, in my view, these people are backwards and out of touch with reality (to say the least). To them, the U.S. president isn't a true American because he's black. The biggest and richest cities - New York, Los Angeles, Washington, San Francisco and Chicago - are some of the most racially, ethnically and nationalistically (in terms of origin) diverse places anywhere in America (or the world for that matter). But I guess all the people living and working in them aren't true Americans either since such a huge percentage of them are non-white. Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 10-20-2011 at 07:08 AM..
Social issues aside, one important fact is right now in the US it's a nightmare finding work if you're not highly skilled in a field still in demand. Computer science is increasingly not one of those fields btw (they outsource and hire immigrants at low wages to fill these positions more and more). You have people who have applied for thousands of positions still out of work, who have massive college and other debt, who have no health care in a country where out of pocket costs are astronomical. It's a nightmare in the US unless you have a nice job already or are guaranteed to have one when you arrive. It used to be the unemployed were considered that way because they didn't want to work, were really lazy and kept getting fired in the past, or have some other issues. Now it's a lottery once you lose a job or graduate on whether you will find ANY work again.
Canada isn't exactly in their best economic times, but their unemployment rates are lower and declining and their employment rates are higher. They also have better education rankings, better health care overall (if you have a nice job and make good money, health care in the US may be better, but since the economy is sh1t and more and more jobs are part-time retail jobs, good luck), lower crime, higher reported happiness, etc. Ask me 30 years ago and I would have said the US in a heartbeat. Things change. Just 40 years ago China was more like North Korea than Hong Kong/South Korea as it's looking today (except the government is totalitarian capitalist).
I live in the UK but lived in Canada for many years.
I disagree with your assertion that you can't get a true idea of what a country is like by visiting it.
Maybe not by visiting once, but several times to different parts?
Sometimes you just get a good feeling in your bones about a place as I have with places like France, Germany and Sweden. I know I could live there quite happily.
In the US I didn't get the same feeling. As I said, I found it far too conservative for my liking, to the point I have felt somewhat uncomfortable. Even NY I don't find that socially liberal. Not to the extent London, Toronto or Paris is.
Since the late 90's, NYC has been a top destination for the wealthy and their kids. With that they've brought their upper class attitudes and politics. They want to be socially liberal, but tend to be economically conservative, better-than-thou (more money, higher status and arrogance). It's not just NYC, same has happened to other major North Eastern cities and San Francisco. Just another way the growing economic inequality in the US is making it less appealing to live in.
Well, I would have to say Canada is a better country for three things. Snakes spiders and ticks. WE have almost no poison snakes or spiders and very few ticks. I'm a dog lover and it seemed that every time I was walking my dogs in some beautiful forest in the USA I would see a sign upon entering, "beware of snakes" Ya right, my two dogs ripping around through the undergrowth are watching out for snakes. Then when I get back to my truck there are 50 friggin ticks on the dogs. My one dog got lyme disease twice in one year down there. Then there are the freakin spiders. Last summer we were camping in a great spot in Delaware. Beautiful place for sure except, black widow and brown recluse spiders and there are lots of the blasted things. On top of that just the regular spiders, which there were thousands of were big enough and ugly enough to kill and eat your average mouse.
You know, it's kinda boring here in South Ontario compared to so many places in the USA BUT. We don't get earthquakes, floods, twisters, big fires or natural calamities of any sort really. We have no dangerous animals wandering around and most of all we have no poisonous snakes, spiders and freakin disease causing ticks.
Well, I think Ontario is considered an area ticks still live in during the warmer months, but presumably far less. They're definitely an issue in forests in the north east US. Snakes as well, and they become more abundant the further south you go. Of course this has to do with weather.
I live in the UK but lived in Canada for many years.
I disagree with your assertion that you can't get a true idea of what a country is like by visiting it.
Maybe not by visiting once, but several times to different parts?
Sometimes you just get a good feeling in your bones about a place as I have with places like France, Germany and Sweden. I know I could live there quite happily.
In the US I didn't get the same feeling. As I said, I found it far too conservative for my liking, to the point I have felt somewhat uncomfortable. Even NY I don't find that socially liberal. Not to the extent London, Toronto or Paris is.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The US is so different from place to place, and visits, again, no matter how frequent, won't give you the same ability to judge the country simply due to the fact that you don't go through the same motions (making friends, getting a job, healthcare/ doctors visits, buying a home, paying taxes, etc. etc. etc.). According to me, these things are needed to really assess any place.
Also, having lived and schooled in NY for 6 years in the past, and again moving back and currently living and working here now compared to my having lived, schooled, and worked in Toronto... I disagree with your notion that Toronto is more socially liberal. Can't comment on London or Paris as I've only visited these cities . But hey, experiences and definitions differ from person to person.
Edited to Add: That being said, I do agree that you just sometimes get that feeling in your bones about a place and this will differ depending who you are and what you are accustomed to. I too have visited cities (London being one of them), where it just didn't strike me as somewhere to live. Call it intuition, superficial, what have you... but sometimes you just know what you'll like. But that being said, I actually may have an opportunity to live in London in the upcoming 5 years and I certainly won't turn it down for that feeling.
Well, I think Ontario is considered an area ticks still live in during the warmer months, but presumably far less. They're definitely an issue in forests in the north east US. Snakes as well, and they become more abundant the further south you go. Of course this has to do with weather.
LOL, my post really was .tounge in cheek ya know! Last summer I saw my first tick in Ontario in my 57 years. In Ohio my dogs got 40 of them in 10 minutes.
What I find about the USA is the incredible differences there are between various area of the country. It's difficult if not impossible to have any generalized statements about the country or the people. I'm a very patriotic Canadian but I just can't come out with a blanket statement, "Canada is better". Canadian people are in no way better than American people. There are good and bad anywhere you go on this planet. I always like to remind Canadians that they lack experience of the USA. It's hard to judge when you are getting your information from the media that is not in any way representitive of the country. An example that I like to use is Vancouver vs Portland Oregon. Many Canadians think Van is just the cats whiskers but I think Portland is a much nicer city. Canadians feel superior because of our more progressive social programmes but Portland has delt with the problems of homelessness and street people much better than Van. I find the people of Portland way more friendly than those of Van.
You just can't take a country the size and diversity of the USA and say, "This is what it is".
What I can say for sure is regarding our respetive political systems. Canada has a far superior system. There are just so many huge problems with the American system that have been problems right from the beginning of the republic. It's an easily corruptable system and corruption reigns supreme in the USA. The justice system is not even a justice system but a political system and every bit as corrupt. Judges, DA's sherrifs and other members of the justice system are elected and therefore subject to all the foibles of the political class.
The federal government of the USA has way to much power and has it's nose into everything. I don't know how this is even allowed since it seems to be unconstitutional to me but as I was saying the law means nothing when it's ruled by political considerations.
Another big difference between the countrys that sets Canada way above the USA is the whole idea of who is sovereign in this country, who rules? In Canada because of our system it's the people who rule for sure. Our political leaders are our servants and the only reason they are in positions of leadership is to serve the people and the country.
In the USA big money is sovereign. Money and financial interests rule the USA and if a measure is bad for the people but good for the special interests the special interests will usually prevail. Most of the political leaders are owned by the special interests and represent them and not the people or the country. I dispise this corruption of democracy and the resultant betrayal of the people. America will never come anywhere near it's potential as long as this state of affairs is allowed to prevail.
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. But hey, experiences and definitions differ from person to person.
