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Actually, it is not gray (or grey). An employer gets to decide if the employee violated the policy.
I'll ignore your (condescending) remarks to reply that I was specifically responding to someone who was talking about what constitutes hate speech, nothing about what an employer deems to be hate speech. I'm not confused at all about first amendment rights but thanks for picking apart my post, word for word. Glad I am worth your time!
There is an interesting article in today's Wall Street Journal entitled "Bosses Lose Their Patience With Staff Activists". While I agree that activism in the work place can be disruptive, what the employee does in their private lives is their own business.
Here is a quote from the WSJ that illustrates my point: "Numerous workers reported being fired from companies after writing contentious social --media posts about the Oct. 7 Hamas attacks in Israel or the war in Gaza."
If this is being written on company media, that's one thing, but when they express their opinions on social media and don't use the company name it's another. In a society where unemployment can result in homelessness, prohibiting an employee from expressing their opinions privately, violates invasion of privacy laws, and two provisions of the first amendment. An employee who had better "watch it" when expressing themselves privately becomes no more than a drone.
I would say, as a rule of thumb, you don't have any "rights" against a corporate employer in the USA unless (A) you have an employment contract, (B) You are independently wealthy (At least a few years of living expenses in liquid cash, PLUS adequate retirement account balances), or (C) The matter pertains to a legally-protected matter or class such as age, race, or certain specific protected acts of whistleblowing.
All of what being discussed on here is nothing new. An employer might suspect an employee is moonlighting or about to resign and looks at his Facebook. The employee was not doing anything of the kind, but may have had a bad day and posted something negative about the employer. The employee then gets fired. It happens every day.
It is even like this with union employees. At my company, the warehouse workers went on strike once, and had a picket line. They were not allowed to even pub one foot on company property while they were picketing and could not block the entrance or anything like that.
some employees believe they are on equal footing with their employers. Hard lesson for many to learn that's not the case. The internet is not private it's public. People forget that I think.
it is a condition of federal employment to not participate in certain activities yes even in a person's own private life.
yes, there have been people who come to work Monday morning and find out they no longer have a job.
Our Son just entered the work force, and is in a corp office environent.
I warend him that everything he says and does while on their property is likely being recorded by sound, video, and digitally through his computer.
I told him to always pretend his boss is standing behind him looking over his shoulder, and he'll be fine.
He also knows his social media accounts are likely being watched.
yes that is great advice, very practical and valuable.
i remember one job i started, and the first day my boss was showing me around the office, and said, "Every conversation that you have someone is listening. Just keep that in mind. and that includes even conversations you have in the bathroom. People are listening. So watch everything you say."
and that turned out to be literally true. the offices were situated in a way that conversations in the bathroom could be heard by people in the offices nearby.
yes that is great advice, very practical and valuable.
i remember one job i started, and the first day my boss was showing me around the office, and said, "Every conversation that you have someone is listening. Just keep that in mind. and that includes even conversations you have in the bathroom. People are listening. So watch everything you say."
and that turned out to be literally true. the offices were situated in a way that conversations in the bathroom could be heard by people in the offices nearby.
One of the most important skills I learned as a supervisor is when to not hear things. If they were talking about problems or things that needed to be fixed, it was a good idea to listen to what they had to say and fix the problem. If they were just venting or complaining, I made sure not to hear and give them their space to do so.
I know that this has been discussed on other threads, but some states actually have laws that you cannot be fired for lawful activities outside of work that do not interfere with your work or harm your employer. I know California is one of them. I don't think laws like that are unreasonable. If a person posts hate speech on Facebook and it causes problems for the employer, than of course the employer can terminate the employee, as they should. Ditto if the person has a drinking problem, like gets drunk every night at home and then comes into work every day hungover and it affects his work. Things like protesting your employer's policies on company time and on company property, as the original poster alluded to, of course the person should be fired. But things like the employee who had a John Kerry bumper sticker on her car in 2004 and was fired, and that was in the news, things like that should be off limits. Or the story that was in the news about the lock company in Indiana that didn't allow employees to drink on personal time because they consider drinking a sin, should be off limits. Or the company years ago in Michigan, Weyco, that had a zero nicotine policy even on personal time, and if you test positive for nicotine, you are fired, should be off limits. If employers are worried about the healthcare costs, do what my company does and charge a surcharge on health insurance for tobacco users. That is reasonable. I'm sure I am going to open a can of worms here, but I believe that your employer should not have a right to dictate what you do on your time, as long as said activity does not interfere with your work performance or cause problems for your employer.
Last edited by MJoseph42286; 05-01-2024 at 08:11 AM..
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