Konterra - News, Updates, Questions and Developments Etc. (Silver Spring, Bethesda: 2014, apartments)

[justtitans]

Keep in mind, Tysons is still a work in progress. It's still being urbanized, made walkable and becoming denser. We haven't really seen what Tysons will be. They have a 20-30 year plan they are just starting on. Just like DistrictSonic mentioned, the location is automatically going to prevent it from being what Tysons is starting to become. Tysons is basically becoming a completely transit oriented city. They don't even have parking lots at any of their metro stations. They are trying to encourage people to use the public transportation. That type of transportation will not exist there. If anything it probably has a better chance of being the current version of Reston Town Center.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

This is true, but in terms of walkability, Konterra has Tysons beat shown by the grid street system in the Konterra rendering. Tysons has to retrofit itself into a walkable transit district which is challenging because of how the area was originally laid out. There are a few things they could do.

For starters, they could turn those 8-lane roads into BLVDS with street parking and fully protected bike lanes. Put a grassy tree-lined median in the middle or perhaps dedicated RBT lanes. I don't agree with the sky-walks and raised plazas. Makes it look 19070-ish.

I was there for training a few years ago for one week. Going from the office building to lunch at the Galleria reminded me of the video game F-r-o-g-g-e-r (Is this a bad word?).

Tysons was built as a destination. Much like National Harbor. You went there to work, shop, and eat. But not live. So, the pedestrian numbers weren't high. Now that they are trying to create a neighborhood from that rigid auto-centric mold, it will take a while.

Konterra has the advantage of starting from scratch. The street-grid system screams walkability and pedestrian-friendly and takes cues from smart-growth concepts. The only drawback is as you said, transit.

I think this is where BRT could be of some use. You're right at the ICC and I-95. Very easy for BRT to go down I-95 to the Greenbelt Metro or along the ICC to the I-270 corridor.

Operative word is "was". It's becoming more and more of a place where people will live now.

I do agree that Tysons isn't as walkable as it should be.

[Mr Beco]

Originally Posted by justtitans

Operative word is "was". It's becoming more and more of a place where people will live now.

I do agree that Tysons isn't as walkable as it should be.

Tysons is anything BUT walkable......god only knows if/when it is. My guess, never. Take a look at Roslynn, they cant fix that place either.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by justtitans

Keep in mind, Tysons is still a work in progress. It's still being urbanized, made walkable and becoming denser. We haven't really seen what Tysons will be. They have a 20-30 year plan they are just starting on. Just like DistrictSonic mentioned, the location is automatically going to prevent it from being what Tysons is starting to become. Tysons is basically becoming a completely transit oriented city. They don't even have parking lots at any of their metro stations. They are trying to encourage people to use the public transportation. That type of transportation will not exist there. If anything it probably has a better chance of being the current version of Reston Town Center.

But what you two are saying is, Tysons being built as a car-only destination was able to enjoy 30 years of relative success, but Konterra, being built as a more walkable town with street grids, can't? And the ONLY thing missing is mass-transit? That would mean any and ALL suburban projects without mass transit would simply fail. Westphalia? ANY project in Bowie? Woodmore Town Center? Laurel Town Center? But that would be untrue right? Clearly there are projects far from mass transit that enjoy some measure of success. If not here, in other parts of the country.

Again, people fail to mention BRT or any other modes of mass transit that could serve Konterra in the meantime. I don't see Konterra as an abject failure just because there is no Metro.

Do I think it could rival Tysons? Not my words. And I agree that Tysons does have decades as a head start. Including mass-transit.

[justtitans]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

But what you two are saying is, Tysons being built as a car-only destination was able to enjoy 30 years of relative success, but Konterra, being built as a more walkable town with street grids, can't? And the ONLY thing missing is mass-transit? That would mean any and ALL suburban projects without mass transit would simply fail. Westphalia? ANY project in Bowie? Woodmore Town Center? Laurel Town Center? But that would be untrue right? Clearly there are projects far from mass transit that enjoy some measure of success. If not here, in other parts of the country.

They aren't the same. It's a different time. For starters, Tysons has high-end retail that attracted people to go there. Konterra is going to need that, but that will be challenging given the glut of shopping malls nearby (Annapolis, Columbia, Montgomery, etc.). If Konterra can attract retail on the level of the Galleria then maybe that will help.

Then you have to consider the number of Fortune 500 companies that are in Tysons. Is Konterra going to be able to do the same? Given MD's business climate it will be challenging.

The surrounding neighborhoods in places like McLean, Reston, and Vienna have tons of money and business people that help sustain Tysons. Laurel has wealthy areas around it but is it the equivalent of those places?

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Again, people fail to mention BRT or any other modes of mass transit that could serve Konterra in the meantime. I don't see Konterra as an abject failure just because there is no Metro.

So when did that project start? Oh that's right it hasn't started yet, so it's kind of hard to compare it, but besides that, how does a BRT compare to a full-service train system like the Metro?

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Do I think it could rival Tysons? Not my words. And I agree that Tysons does have decades as a head start. Including mass-transit.

There will never be another Tysons. Not in MD, not in VA. It is what it is. Konterra needs to just be what it is and stop trying to compete with VA.

[CBMD]

Doubt if we'll see BRT on the ICC anytime soon. Why would anyone spend the money, ($60M a mile?), when the road is not currently congested? I think regular buses will be capable of breaking the speed limit on the ICC 24/7 for some time to come.


Best I can tell all the infrastructure improvements that were to be funded by the state prior to the development of the Town Center have been completed, and just a small amount to be funded by PGC remains, and is scheduled to be completed within 12-18 months.



Here's the old website for Konterra. I expect it will come down soon. But you can see that there were originally two commercial centers planned. The larger "Fashion" oriented one to the east of 95, and a smaller "neighborhood" one to the west, grocery store etc. Wonder if that will hold with the next iteration.

Konterra Realty -Town Center, Shopping, Entertainment

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by justtitans

They aren't the same. It's a different time. For starters, Tysons has high-end retail that attracted people to go there. Konterra is going to need that, but that will be challenging given the glut of shopping malls nearby (Annapolis, Columbia, Montgomery, etc.). If Konterra can attract retail on the level of the Galleria then maybe that will help.

The first phase of Konterra will not be solely retail. It will be mixed-use. Retail with living space and offices above. That's something that Tysons didn't have at its inception. While mass-transit will help Tysons become more accessible to pedestrians, Metro isn't the end-all-be-all. Tysons has no neighborhood or community character. It is a place to shop and work. Then people go home and the streets are empty.

Then you have to consider the number of Fortune 500 companies that are in Tysons. Is Konterra going to be able to do the same? Given MD's business climate it will be challenging.

Considered ...and is yet to be determined. There will be opportunities for Maryland to attract companies from other states as well as grow their own. Konterra just provides them with another option. The ICC was meant to balance job centers between I-95 and I-270. The eastern leg was just completed less than a year ago. Maybe it will help spur office development as intended. Maybe not. Too early to tell. Konterra waited until the ICC was finished. Perhaps other developers are doing the same.

The surrounding neighborhoods in places like McLean, Reston, and Vienna have tons of money and business people that help sustain Tysons. Laurel has wealthy areas around it but is it the equivalent of those places?

It doesn't have to be. It is the same argument in the thread about Whole Foods in Riverdale. People keep assuming that these destination projects will only attract those that live in the immediate area. Who goes to Tysons? Everyone in the DC region. The vision of Konterra is that it is not just for those who live in Laurel or the surrounding towns. Just like Tysons wasn't built just for those in Fairfax. The mall in Tysons is a regional mall, not a local neighborhood mall. Therefore you have people from all over the region visiting the mall. If that's what Konterra is shooting for, I'm not going to fault them for it. I wonder what people would say if Tysons was just starting out. No wait. They would drool over it because it is in VA right?

So when did that project start? Oh that's right it hasn't started yet, so it's kind of hard to compare it, but besides that, how does a BRT compare to a full-service train system like the Metro?

Since when did BRT become such a bad idea? This is interesting. People complain that the Purple Line is too expensive and that BRT is the better cost-effective option. But when BRT is mentioned, heavy rail is the better option? Which is it? Yes, heavy rail moves more people, but BRT can be used as a temporary measure until heavy rail can be put in place. Better than nothing right? After all, if a town center doesn't have mass-transit, it will fail.

And trust me, the I-95/295 corridor will see heavy rail outside of Amtrak and Marc. It may take 15 - 25 years, but it is coming.

There will never be another Tysons. Not in MD, not in VA. It is what it is. Konterra needs to just be what it is and stop trying to compete with VA.

Gee I hope there won't be another Tysons. Nice place to shop. Questionable place to work. Not a good place to live at the present moment. But, to each his own. If the developer wants to compete with Tysons, that's their right. Stop hatin'.

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by CBMD

Doubt if we'll see BRT on the ICC anytime soon. Why would anyone spend the money, ($60M a mile?), when the road is not currently congested? I think regular buses will be capable of breaking the speed limit on the ICC 24/7 for some time to come.

Why would it cost $60m per mile? All you would have to do is create a HOV lane for the buses at certain times of the day. Done deal. No one is talking about building a separate right-of-way. There are currently no HOV lanes on the ICC or I-95. That will change soon enough as the population grows. Why wait until traffic grinds to a crawl before carving out HOV on the ICC?

[CBMD]

Originally Posted by adelphi_sky

Why would it cost $60m per mile? All you would have to do is create a HOV lane for the buses at certain times of the day. Done deal. No one is talking about building a separate right-of-way. There are currently no HOV lanes on the ICC or I-95. That will change soon enough as the population grows. Why wait until traffic grinds to a crawl before carving out HOV on the ICC?

I also put a ? after the $60M. The CCT BRT currently being planned is costing $532M.

About the Project - Corridor Cities Transitway

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by CBMD

I also put a ? after the $60M. The CCT BRT currently being planned is costing $532M.

About the Project - Corridor Cities Transitway

My idea was an express BRT. No stops along the ICC. Just two stations. One at Konterra and one at I-270 connecting to the Red Line. Run them every 30 minutes. Every 15 minutes during rush hour.

Yes, the ICC is not congested now. But as Konterra adds density, it would be more practical to run some sort of express bus service between the two stations.