What is Toronto's #1 problem? (purchasing, tax, price)
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Racism is a human problem, not a Toronto-specific problem. Toronto has its issues with this but the idea that it's exceptionally worse than other places is ridiculous.
Agreed and instead of just saying its a problem in an online forum why not offer up solutions! Why not get a rally organized and protest at Dundas Square and create more awareness! If I'm leaving on a Jet Plane were to do that i'd be the first white guy to join in!
Ahhh so the real maclock comes out. That's why I responded to you the way I did when you said things like are you joking and are you off your rocker. You came in here with cat fangs out and its because you have an intense anger to any Province west of Manitoba and you hate Toronto and the so called "Toronto Elite".
Well, your assumptions about me aren't correct at all, but do go on believing whatever you want to believe. And for the avoidance of doubt, it was you who started shouting and swearing. Remind me who the angry one is again?
I like large parts of Ontario. Toronto and Ottawa, I can do without for the most part, but the rest of Ontario is alright. Similarly, I like Quebec. Montreal is okay, but Quebec's magic is in its smaller towns and cities. It's just too bad that provincial politics in Quebec have destroyed that province and its standing in the country over the last 50 years or so. A sad state of affairs.
I lived in Atlantic Canada for decades and other than the defeatist attitude that some in that part of the world have, resigning themselves to being dominated by and dependent on Ottawa for handouts and largesse, it's a decent part of the world. Other than the temporarily stalled Newfoundland and Labrador economy, their economic prospects are grim and don't show much hope for improvement, though. It's also a sad state of affairs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
As for transit - Ottawa doesn't need a large people moving transit system. Its a city the size of Calgary. Cities like Toronto and Montreal are large cities. By 2030 the GTA will be 2.5 times the size of current Montreal. We need to look at building transit that will get people moving. I think you know that. Western Canada isn't the only area of the country that produces economic benefit for the country either Maclock.
That won't stop the burghers of Ottawa from trying to emulate the TTC or STM, though, will it?
Anyway, I don't have an issue with Torontonians expanding their transit system. I do have an issue with them expecting Canadians in other provinces to pay for that expansion, however. If Toronto is so important and if the investment is a no-brainer, then Toronto and Tortonians should pay for it. (Of course, people elsewhere in Ontario are chipping in to fund the Ontario Liberal Party's Toronto-area transit plans and many of them aren't terribly happy about that. Not my concern, though, for it isn't my province.)
I said you must be joking and you must be off your rocker because of your suggestion that Toronto has been shortchanged in some way. First of all, Canada doesn't spend much on infrastructure, period. So Toronto isn't being shortchanged in any real way. And the notion that Toronto is somehow being shortchanged is nothing short of a howler for those of us who live in other parts of the country. Have you seen the infrastructure, the facilities, the services, etc. in other parts of Canada? Are you familiar with the policies that Ottawa has enacted since 1867 to ensure the growth of your part of the country at the expense of just about everywhere else? Come on, man! I know that the Toronto as victim narrative might be popular in some crowds, but don't post sentiments like that on here and expect that others won't suggest they're a bunch of malarkey.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fusion2
I don't control the federal coffers Maclock but one thing I know - Canada including Toronto NEEDS investment in infrastructure to get things moving. Toronto's transit system for a city its size, stature and growth rate is not adequate. Developing and Third world countries have figured transit and its importance to large cities out and I think Canada can joing their ranks too! Progress is being made but its not enough! The GTA adds a Calgary sized city to its boundaries every 12 years and they keep coming.
Canada might need infrastructure investment, but improving transit in Toronto is largely a local benefit which will accrue to Toronto and to Torontonians. Other than some minor contributions from Ottawa so that a federal minister can attend a ribbon cutting ceremony or two, Toronto and Queen's Park should sort out the cost of improving the TTC, GO Transit, and other like agencies between themselves without expecting the rest of the country to chip in.
You're off your rocker. Canada and the Canadian provinces haven't spent money on infrastructure for a very long time, period. This has nothing to do with Toronto supposedly being shortchanged. Get a grip.
Not so in B.C.
Three huge projects, the widening and building of new exits and on ramps for highway One, the replacing of the Port Mann Bridge, and the not quite finished new Evergreen Line that is part of the Skytrain system have all happened in the last 2 years.
The highway and bridge were done together at a cost of $2.46 billion. The Evergreen Line costs $1.4 billion.
There were other projects as well, such as the new roof on BC Place Stadium which cost $563 million.
Then there are the many smaller infrastructure projects as well.
Three huge projects, the widening and building of new exits and on ramps for highway One, the replacing of the Port Mann Bridge, and the not quite finished new Evergreen Line that is part of the Skytrain system have all happened in the last 2 years.
The highway and bridge were done together at a cost of $2.46 billion. The Evergreen Line costs $1.4 billion.
There were other projects as well, such as the new roof on BC Place Stadium which cost $563 million.
Then there are the many smaller infrastructure projects as well.
But that's after decades of insufficient spending on that kind of infrastructure. B.C. is chipping away at an infrastructure deficit. They've been building in Alberta as well, and for similar reasons: they penny-pinched for 20-30 years.
As I've already mentioned, I have no problem with public spending on infrastructure, but if the benefit is largely or exclusively local/provincial, then the dollars for such spending should be put up by the people who will benefit from same.
Toronto is doing so well that nobody really needs to change anything. I mean, people keep coming, and prices keep skyrocketing. So obviously, there is no crisis. And people usually don't do much until a crisis is right on their doorstep.
But that's after decades of insufficient spending on that kind of infrastructure. B.C. is chipping away at an infrastructure deficit. They've been building in Alberta as well, and for similar reasons: they penny-pinched for 20-30 years.
As I've already mentioned, I have no problem with public spending on infrastructure, but if the benefit is largely or exclusively local/provincial, then the dollars for such spending should be put up by the people who will benefit from same.
First you said there was no spending, now you are saying they are spending but playing catch up? They may very well be playing some catch up, I'm not sure, but they certainly have been spending.
In the last 30 years, 1985 to present, I can think of many infrastructure projects in B.C.
The Skytrain line which started in 1986, the year we had the World's Fair, where infrastructure such as new roads were built downtown, a new stadium, and a new convention centre. Then in 2009 for $900 million a new addition was built.
Skytrain got a new line added in 2000 another new line in from the airport in 2009, as well as the Evergreen Line that I already mentioned.
Widening of the Sea to Sky Highway, another billion spent.
The widening and renovation of the Lions Gate Bridge in the 1990's.
The building of the Alex Fraser Bridge over Fraser river, $58 million in 1986 dollars.
The building of the Golden Ears Bridge
The tearing down and rebuilding of the Pitt River Bridge
The Coquihalla Highway was built at the cost of $848 million between 1986 and 1990 in two parts.
More recently Vancouver has upgraded it's water purification system at a cost of $150 million.
I've only focused mainly on the Lower Mainland and not the rest of the province. However my point is that we've seemed to have gone from
"You're off your rocker. Canada and the Canadian provinces haven't spent money on infrastructure for a very long time, period."
To billions of dollars spent over the last 30 years in ONE area of the country, pretty darn fast.
First you said there was no spending, now you are saying they are spending but playing catch up? They may very well be playing some catch up, I'm not sure, but they certainly have been spending.
In the last 30 years, 1985 to present, I can think of many infrastructure projects in B.C.
The Skytrain line which started in 1986, the year we had the World's Fair, where infrastructure such as new roads were built downtown, a new stadium, and a new convention centre. Then in 2009 for $900 million a new addition was built.
Skytrain got a new line added in 2000 another new line in from the airport in 2009, as well as the Evergreen Line that I already mentioned.
Widening of the Sea to Sky Highway, another billion spent.
The widening and renovation of the Lions Gate Bridge in the 1990's.
The building of the Alex Fraser Bridge over Fraser river, $58 million in 1986 dollars.
The building of the Golden Ears Bridge
The tearing down and rebuilding of the Pitt River Bridge
The Coquihalla Highway was built at the cost of $848 million between 1986 and 1990 in two parts.
More recently Vancouver has upgraded it's water purification system at a cost of $150 million.
I've only focused mainly on the Lower Mainland and not the rest of the province. However my point is that we've seemed to have gone from
"You're off your rocker. Canada and the Canadian provinces haven't spent money on infrastructure for a very long time, period."
To billions of dollars spent over the last 30 years in ONE area of the country, pretty darn fast.
Right-o. I think you're just looking to lock horns.
Canadians are notoriously tight about spending public money on infrastructure. For two of your examples, you list a $58 million bridge project from 30-odd years ago (about $112 million today) and a $150 million upgrade to ensure that Vancouver has potable water. These were two desperately needed projects and they cost very little, relatively speaking. The fact that you highlight them should tell you all you need to know about how little public money is spent on infrastructure. As with other parts of Canada, B.C. didn't spend very much money on infrastructure for decades and now there's a nasty infrastructure deficit that has built up. I don't think any of that is particularly controversial.
Part of what fusion2 and I were bickering over is whether Canada -- that is to say, all of Canada -- should pay for major investments in Toronto-area infrastructure, infrastructure that we're told is so very important and a no-brainer. If that's the case, then Torontonians should pay for those investments themselves. Toronto is so big, so powerful, has such a mighty economy, etc., etc., yet it needs to look to less-advantaged and/or far distant parts of the country for the money it requires build out its dream system. And trust me that the federal bill for its share of those projects won't be a few hundred million. It'll be several billion dollars at the very least. Without too much difficulty, I can see the feds being expected to foot the bill for tens of billions in infrastructure spending in the Greater Toronto Area.
And the Canada Line and the Sea-to-Sky expansion were done because of the winter Olympics. I expect you would have had a hard time getting that work done if Vancouver hadn't hosted the 2010 games. That being said, I think that building the Canada Line created some public demand transit expansion and infrastructure improvements in the Vancouver area. It's too bad that the public isn't keen on funding that continued expansion and improvement, though, isn't it? You must find that both inconvenient and disappointing.
That's interesting. It isn't particularly relevant, but it's interesting.
It is relevant because the feds funding stuff in Toronto is not necessarily other Canadians bankrolling Toronto's stuff.
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