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4-year olds usually are spending time in preschool learning to make things out of construction paper, coloring, learning to use scissors, all of which require dexterity. Some are learning that at 3. They're not going to preschool and tearing up the materials they're given and throwing things around.
It sounds like your oldest grandchild has never been given any boundaries or had any expectations set about her behavior. She may not have much structure at home at all. Most kids at 4 are happy to work with coloring books and crayons. Probably most of us here did at 4; I remember enjoying coloring books at that age. I also remember enjoying picture books for 4 year olds; dexterity was not an issue, or there wouldn't have been a book industry aimed at that age group.
If they come to visit you, it would be appropriate for you to set boundaries for the older one. If she ignores them, you can give her a "time out" in a corner or in a room all alone with nothing to tear up. If she cries or howls, she may have to be taken home. That's how kids learn boundaries. The problem is, that her mother won't back you up if she tells her mom that Grandma was "mean".
I don't think she's very happy. She's been allowed to destroy her own toys, leaving her with nothing to play with. That's very strange. I think she's been testing boundaries at home to see what she can get away with, and has discovered there are none, and that she's allowed to trash her own environment. Deep down, she may be hoping someone finally stops her. She's not going to integrate well in school at all. Speaking of which: why isn't she in school?
And by the way, stop buying her toys, books, and art supplies until she's able to appreciate them and care for them. If you're expected to get her something for her birthday or Christmas, you may be limited to giving her clothes until she learns to control her behavior.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-30-2023 at 03:32 AM..
Thanks for all your replies. We just got back from 4 days over Christmas at their house. So many things. Here are a few notes.
First, this is my daughter, not daughter-in-law. Just an FYI, so I know how she was raised. We went over to SIL's mother's house Christmas PM and I can see where there was a lot more "permissiveness", plus the fact that they constantly seem to ignore the parents wishes on behavior and allowed her to do a lot of things they shouldn't have and parents were trying to stop her. But that's a whole other subject.
One thing that bothers me is the excuses....She's only 2, she's only 3, she's only 4, etc. When does it stop?? She doesn't listen and apparently that's one of the things the pre-k teacher brought out at their PT meeting several weeks ago. So it's just not me. The problem being as a first child, they pandered to her in everything. Now she is older they are expecting her to start behaving properly and they are now finding themselves having to yell to get her to behave, or even listen. She will just sit there and continue doing what she is doing and totally ignore them. After telling her to do something 3 times they finally yell and then she, of course, wrinkles up her face, bawls, and starts to scream "NO" and then parents apologize for yelling at her and tell how much they "love" her and hug her. So she knows there will be no punishment for ignoring them Or else a "time out" is sitting on the couch with them and watching TV. IMO a time out should be to deter the behavior and not give her something she wants to do.
As far as the destructive, still happening. Mother got her a train set that actually moves with battery power (Really???). Of course she wouldn't allow anyone to help her (my hubby was trying) and when frustrated would throw the cars and started using sections of the track to hit things. When daughter sat down on the floor and showed her how to make it work properly she kept smashing things around or jumping over it as it was moving. Once she fell and knocked it around. Mother told her that if she broke it she coldn't fix it, but that didn't stop her. Am I hateful in sitting there hoping she would fall on it and break it so MAYBE she would learn a lesson??? Then she started in on the younger girls presents that didn't get opened.and had to be pulled away from opening them. My hubby said that once she was sitting there pulling the papers off all the crayons and throwing it on the floor. He told her to please throw it in the trash and she said "I don't have to, Mommy has people come in and clean up for us.". Daughter was mortified when he told her what kid had said. Yes they have a cleaning person come in once every 2 weeks, but just for general housework, not to clean up after bratty kids.
Hubby took little one outside to play and it took older one about 20 minutes to decide what was good enough to wear, so she went out to meet up with them. But instead of doing that she decided to try and go next door to play with the kid there even thought she wasn't asked. Hubby stopped her and she screamed at him, then decided to go across the road to see the dog that was out. As she was running over there hubby ran and grabbed her to stop her from running into the road without looking because she wouldn't stop when he told her to, where immediately she went inside and screamed to her mother that Pop-Pop pushed her.
Frustrating visit. Definitely not coming here for awhile.
your daughter is carefully crafting a lifetime of torment for herself.
It’s definitely not age appropriate behavior for a 4 year old. I wouldn’t buy anything expensive and I would visit the grandkids in their own home so they weren’t destructive in mine. It sounds like the parents are too permissive.
This. Everyone looooves babies, their own personal dress up doll, to show off, to brag about, to take care of, no muss, no fuss, no backtalk......then the babies reach around age 3, and THAT'S when the hard part of raising kids begins. They have become little people with minds of their own, and that translates to me, me, me. And they don't automatically know how to handle their feelings. They are no longer fun, now people will do almost anything to avoid a 3 year old and up's meltdowns/tantrums. Give in, give toys, give candy, baby them, and the like because they don't want to discipline, or don't know how to discipline. IMO, 4 is old enough to be taught how to be civil, and I agree with visiting them in their own home, with their own things, and then leaving when the behavior gets to be too much.
Last edited by Lodestar 77; 12-30-2023 at 07:22 AM..
Conscience, self-soothing/control, and such are formed when a child is 0-4. It sounds as though the parents missed the boat and now have a problem kid on their hands.
The bigger problem is, this kid will grow into an adult with no boundaries if this does not change. Then, the kid becomes a problem for the rest of us; someone not raised with appropriate boundaries, manners, empathy, etc., grows from a spoiled brat into an adult. That adult, by no surprise, finds it hard to adjust to life and having to cope with others who were raised with rules, expectations, accountability, and all the necessary tools to live civilly among others.
I have a 4 year old grandchild, and she doesn't act this way at all. Her parents are actually parents; they understand they have a responsibility to raise and guide her along.
As far as gifting is concerned, I would suggest nothing breakable at this point. I would also have a discussion with her pediatrician to rule out autism or any other neurological condition which may be contributing to her wild behaviors and attitude.
Good luck, OP.
Thanks for all your replies. We just got back from 4 days over Christmas at their house. So many things. Here are a few notes.
One thing that bothers me is the excuses....She's only 2, she's only 3, she's only 4, etc. When does it stop??
Bingo!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rothbear;
As far as the destructive, still happening. Mother got her a train set that actually moves with battery power (Really???). Of course she wouldn't allow anyone to help her (my hubby was trying) and when frustrated would throw the cars and started using sections of the track to hit things. When daughter sat down on the floor and showed her how to make it work properly she kept smashing things around or jumping over it as it was moving. Once she fell and knocked it around. Mother told her that if she broke it she coldn't fix it, but that didn't stop her.
Thanks for elaborating, OP. Part of the problem seems to be the selection of toys for her, that aren't age-appropriate. As if the parents are buying toys randomly, hoping to keep her entertained without putting any thought into what's appropriate for a 4-year-old.
And you say she's in school, but the teacher says she doesn't listen? What exactly does that mean, besides that she doesn't follow instructions? Does she start running wild like she does at home? If she starts getting hyper-active, how does the teacher handle that? What do the parents think about those concerns? Do they do anything about it at home? Do they care that the child isn't fit for school?
I suspect that part of the problem is, that no one spent much time playing with her and guiding her play when she was two, so that she never learned appropriate play. Was she abandoned to her own devices as a toddler, and left with a pile of toys as surrogates to parental company and guidance? If so, there are bigger problems afoot already. It would mean, that she's failed to bond with her parents. That failure to invest time and effort in the emotional development of the child will backfire big time in later years. Good luck with that.
Are your daughter and SIL fairly self-absorbed parents who live in their own world, and expect their kids to do the same, and stay out of the parents' way? Kids in the first few years of life aren't capable of doing that until roughly 4, after learning through co-play with a parent or caregiver in earlier years how to play, and after absorbing enough love and attention that they can later be emotionally self-sufficient to the extent that they can play alone. That ability takes time to develop.
It's not just the child who needs some kind of intervention or corrective parenting. The parents need to learn about early child psychology, and need to invest more time (not money/toys) in their children.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 12-30-2023 at 11:07 AM..
She should never have been allowed to rip books apart, throw things or purposefully break crayons.
The other stuff sounds like a kid with too much stuff. She moves from one toy to the next and mixes parts and pieces in with other parts and pieces. Typical kid.
The adults need to do a better job culling her toys down or simply not giving her so much in the first place. Maybe start giving her an experience as a present. Take her to the Ice Capades or circus. Getting a manicure. That sort of thing.
Thanks for all your replies. We just got back from 4 days over Christmas at their house. So many things. Here are a few notes.
First, this is my daughter, not daughter-in-law. Just an FYI, so I know how she was raised. We went over to SIL's mother's house Christmas PM and I can see where there was a lot more "permissiveness", plus the fact that they constantly seem to ignore the parents wishes on behavior and allowed her to do a lot of things they shouldn't have and parents were trying to stop her. But that's a whole other subject.
One thing that bothers me is the excuses....She's only 2, she's only 3, she's only 4, etc. When does it stop?? She doesn't listen and apparently that's one of the things the pre-k teacher brought out at their PT meeting several weeks ago. So it's just not me. The problem being as a first child, they pandered to her in everything. Now she is older they are expecting her to start behaving properly and they are now finding themselves having to yell to get her to behave, or even listen. She will just sit there and continue doing what she is doing and totally ignore them. After telling her to do something 3 times they finally yell and then she, of course, wrinkles up her face, bawls, and starts to scream "NO" and then parents apologize for yelling at her and tell how much they "love" her and hug her. So she knows there will be no punishment for ignoring them Or else a "time out" is sitting on the couch with them and watching TV. IMO a time out should be to deter the behavior and not give her something she wants to do.
As far as the destructive, still happening. Mother got her a train set that actually moves with battery power (Really???). Of course she wouldn't allow anyone to help her (my hubby was trying) and when frustrated would throw the cars and started using sections of the track to hit things. When daughter sat down on the floor and showed her how to make it work properly she kept smashing things around or jumping over it as it was moving. Once she fell and knocked it around. Mother told her that if she broke it she coldn't fix it, but that didn't stop her. Am I hateful in sitting there hoping she would fall on it and break it so MAYBE she would learn a lesson??? Then she started in on the younger girls presents that didn't get opened.and had to be pulled away from opening them. My hubby said that once she was sitting there pulling the papers off all the crayons and throwing it on the floor. He told her to please throw it in the trash and she said "I don't have to, Mommy has people come in and clean up for us.". Daughter was mortified when he told her what kid had said. Yes they have a cleaning person come in once every 2 weeks, but just for general housework, not to clean up after bratty kids.
Hubby took little one outside to play and it took older one about 20 minutes to decide what was good enough to wear, so she went out to meet up with them. But instead of doing that she decided to try and go next door to play with the kid there even thought she wasn't asked. Hubby stopped her and she screamed at him, then decided to go across the road to see the dog that was out. As she was running over there hubby ran and grabbed her to stop her from running into the road without looking because she wouldn't stop when he told her to, where immediately she went inside and screamed to her mother that Pop-Pop pushed her.
Frustrating visit. Definitely not coming here for awhile.
Has her preschool suggested an evaluation for the 4 year old?
Running into the street without looking and not getting an adult's permission to do so AND approaching a loose dog like that is worrisome. I don't know if she simply hasn't been taken outside to play and never learned proper behavior or if there is something deeper going on here (poor impulse control?).
I get the impression that some trained intervention might very well be warranted and could make a world of difference for your granddaughter.
Has her preschool suggested an evaluation for the 4 year old?
Running into the street without looking and not getting an adult's permission to do so AND approaching a loose dog like that is worrisome. I don't know if she simply hasn't been taken outside to play and never learned proper behavior or if there is something deeper going on here (poor impulse control?).
I get the impression that some trained intervention might very well be warranted and could make a world of difference for your granddaughter.
Great post! The parents need a wake-up call, like a recommendation for a psych eval would (or should) produce. Hopefully the parents wouldn't dismiss it and defend their hellion.
And the bolded is beyond worrisome; it's dangerous! I hope the parents don't get a very different, far more serious and potentially tragic wakeup call as a result of that type of behavior outside the house. It almost seems like she'd never been outside the home and backyard before, but she must have, because she knew where the child next door lives.
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