Burlington, Ann Arbor, or Ithaca?

[hateTheburbs]

It depends what you like.

Both Burlington and Ithaca are walk-&-bike-friendly meccas with crunchy laid back street scenes, cafes, music, used bookstores, organic groceries, arts. Both are very green. Both places are poised to do well in an oil scarce universe because they lack the expensive infrastructure of sprawl. Both places lack the soul-drenching loops of condos, office parks, highways, and malls seen in larger cities. Ithaca is one of the most anti-suburban and anti-chain places I have ever seen. Crime is low in both places. When I lived in Ithaca, I never locked my home. When I went to school in Burlington, I never thought to lock my car. [I live in a larger city now and I lock everything all the time]. Ithaca is less congested, and has epic gorges running through town. It also has a strong local agriculture scene if the energy and transport costs of mass industrial farming become prohibitive. Burlington has more traffic, but is wonderfully situated between the Green and Adirdondack Mountains. Both have universities, but Nabokov didn't pen the final chapters of Lolita at UVM. If you don't like big city crime and sprawl, but you still want culture . . . and you like natural beauty, you cant beat Ithaca or Burlington. You will definitely need more money in Burlington ...

[indigonation]

I vote Ann Arbor cause its all of the things you said, and I don't know anything about Burlington, VT or Ithaca, NY. Plus its beautiful in the summer time, and people are laid back. I like it.

[MrDee12345]

I have to wonder where people currently stand when comparing these three cities...?

[Riley.]

This is a 13 yr old thread.
Burlington is very expensive and the vibe here has changed since I got here in 2003 (from L.A.) with an increase in crime and progressive city councils, school boards, etc.
But I don 't know about Ann Arbor or Ithaca.

[MrDee12345]

Originally Posted by Riley.

This is a 13 yr old thread.
Burlington is very expensive and the vibe here has changed since I got here in 2003 (from L.A.) with an increase in crime and progressive city councils, school boards, etc.
But I don 't know about Ann Arbor or Ithaca.

I realize it's an old thread, but I was searching for some differences between Ithaca and Burlington, so this one popped up. I figured, why bother making a new thread when there is already one in existence?

As for Burlington, I lived there from 2002-2003. Back then it had minor issues, usually related to drunken college kids and some other troubled people who hung around. I generally liked the place, but I also had some issues there, too.

How is it different now?

[Riley.]

I would say the 'general' quality of the city-vibe has declined.
There are more 'troubled people' hanging around, sitting on the sidewalk in the path of tourists. There is a bus station hub near the courthouse where there is always some trouble brewing: shouting matches, drug deals (which I've witnessed) and garbage strewn about. I have a friend who lives down there and walks for exercise and he relays that someone from that bus area always steps in front of him as if to challenge him when he is walking. Intimidation? IDK.
There's a lot more graffiti and trash and again, observable drug deals happening in more than one place (the gas station across from City Market being one where I have also witnessed transactions.)
Violent crime has increased as well as shooting incidents.
The progressive city council won't certify the 2-yr 'interim' police chief and has a very anti-police attitude. Most everything politically seems to be skewed to justice for LGBTQ+ and BIPOC. Not much anymore on improving the quality of life for average VT taxpayers.
City-Hole is finally being filled LOL....but it's sat as a hole in the ground for 3 years I think it is. Nowhere really to shop. The old Macy's location is now the temporary high school. The business environment appears to be stagnant and unfriendly.
The economic outlook is somewhat level, too, IMO. We've lost people and potential employees who can't finding affordable (or most any other kind) of housing. Schools are hell-bent on being petri-dishes for social 'justice' instead of education, and taxes and costs continue to rise. A neighboring town just approved a $36 million dollar bond measure to add 8 classrooms to an aging and outdated school building.
I wouldn't suggest moving here. Honestly. Unless you can afford the high cost of living and can ignore the socio-political climate. Find another more tempered rural environment if rural is what you are looking for.
PM me if you have any additional questions. I'm sure I'll be slammed here for my comments. but 2023 is the year of 'I don't care.' someone needs to speak up.

[upstate_proud]

I've never been to Ann Arbor and have only visited Ithaca a few times, most recently in 2015. (I do like Ithaca). However, I visited Burlington with family in the 1970s and lived in Burlington from 1987 to 1998, but have not been there since 2016. Burlington's decline had already started, but I have been hearing from friends about a steep decline over the past 5 years. Riley's comments are nearly identical to theirs, and many of them are looking at opportunities elsewhere. I would just add that Burlington is not at all laid-back and tolerant; your social and professional opportunities will be very limited if you do not adhere completely to the prevailing social agenda. The days of tolerant progressivism - what I experienced - are over, and are not coming back anytime soon. If you like communities in decline, with a homogeneous, smug population, and overpriced housing (based on an outdated vision of the city), then Burlington is for you. For what it's worth, I would suggest looking at neighborhoods in the larger Upstate cities, all of which offer what you want and are on the upswing. In 1987, considering Buffalo or Rochester over Burlington would be a sign of insanity. But here we are.

[harry chickpea]

I doubt anyone will "slam" Riley for stating the reality of Burlington as it stands. The seniors in subsidized housing near the new pod community for the "home-challenged" have reportedly been continuously complaining about crime and anti-social behavior in the area, while the council sits on their collective hands, or other flatulent body parts.

I would propose a new term for the leaders who claim to be socially aware, speak platitudes, and yet allow anti-social behaviors to trump the rights of the tax-paying citizenry to a peaceable and reasonably polite existence. I would call them "Progressively Anti-social Proponents" and them and their mouthings "PAP!" for short.

No way would I live in New York State these days. What Burlington has on a local level, New York State is working towards on a state-wide level.