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The goal is the end of suffering, escaping the supposed cycles would be meaningless if it wasn't that their intrinsic property contained suffering as a prime component.
It bears repeating: the goal is ENDING suffering, not escaping it, or ignoring it, nor accepting it, or fighting it, but ENDING it.
This is not limited to the Ethical Egoism's ignorant lusts for Power and Immortality. It extends to working to end suffering for all sentient and sensitive beings. It is not limited to detrimental Care Ethics where only one's country-folk or beloved relations are beseeched with the love of rightful understanding.
As the meaning in life is to strive towards a worthwhile goal, so it is that that goal, from an enlightened perspective, is to end suffering and thus defeat Evil.
To truly have a goal, you must believe it. This necessity explains the need for the logical syllogism of the 4 Noble Truths. To truly reach a goal, you must properly plan and follow it. This necessity explains the need for the simplified and broken down 8-Fold Path of Righteousness.
The need to get into the gritty details and such explains the Scriptures. The needs of people explain the rituals and practices, such as the Three-Jewels of Religion (Figure, Teachings, and Community) and the Vast Diversity of Meditation (visualizations, prayer, concentration, etc).
Yes, suffering caused by desire and resulting in remaining on the cycle of rebirth. Working at extinction of desire will not in itself extinguish suffering so long as one remains in the body (though through meditation, one's consciousness may become oblivious of that existence - suffering .
Thus the only way to end the suffering is to end the cycle of rebirth. extinguishing of desire is intended to achieve that end and escaping from suffering while still in existence is not the goal but part of the process to the end goal (extinction - Nirvana).
To get back to topic, prayers and rituals are at best a focus of concentration. At worst a dstraction or diversion from the one goal.
Yes, suffering caused by desire and resulting in remaining on the cycle of rebirth. Working at extinction of desire will not in itself extinguish suffering so long as one remains in the body (though through meditation, one's consciousness may become oblivious of that existence - suffering .
Thus the only way to end the suffering is to end the cycle of rebirth. extinguishing of desire is intended to achieve that end and escaping from suffering while still in existence is not the goal but part of the process to the end goal (extinction - Nirvana).
To get back to topic, prayers and rituals are at best a focus of concentration. At worst a dstraction or diversion from the one goal.
Do you desire to extinguish suffering? Do you desire not to remain in the body any longer? Do you desire to get something through meditation? Do you desire to end the supposed cycle of rebirth? Do you desire to achieve an end? Do you desire the end goal of supposed Nirvana? Do you desire not to get distracted?
Escaping suffering is never the goal except to the most desperate. The goal is alleviating the suffering of the world through peaceful education.
Do you desire to extinguish suffering? Do you desire not to remain in the body any longer? Do you desire to get something through meditation? Do you desire to end the supposed cycle of rebirth? Do you desire to achieve an end? Do you desire the end goal of supposed Nirvana? Do you desire not to get distracted?
What I want or not is irrelevant to that the teachings of Buddhism are about putting an end to suffering by escaping the wheel of rebirth.
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Escaping suffering is never the goal except to the most desperate. The goal is alleviating the suffering of the world through peaceful education.
I don't disagree, which is one reason that I am no longer a Buddhist. But the question is about the goals and methods of Buddhism and whether deity worship is a help a hindrance or irrelevant to those goals and methods. I suggested that they are at best no help and at worst a distraction.
What I want or not is irrelevant to that the teachings of Buddhism are about putting an end to suffering by escaping the wheel of rebirth.
I don't disagree, which is one reason that I am no longer a Buddhist. But the question is about the goals and methods of Buddhism and whether deity worship is a help a hindrance or irrelevant to those goals and methods. I suggested that they are at best no help and at worst a distraction.
When did the wheel of rebirth become a necessary theological aspect of Buddhism?
The Four Noble Truths do not mention it,
The Noble 8 Fold Path does not hint to it,
The Buddha said to question his quotes,
The Community does not hold on to it,
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If you define reincarnation as the transmigration of a soul into a new body after the old body dies, then no, the Buddha did not teach a doctrine of reincarnation. For one thing, he taught there was no soul to transmigrate.
However, there is a Buddhist doctrine of rebirth. According to this doctrine, it is the energy or conditioning created by one life that is reborn into another, not a soul. "The person who dies here and is reborn elsewhere is neither the same person, nor another," Theravada scholar Walpola Rahula wrote.
However, you don't have to "believe in" rebirth to be a Buddhist. Many Buddhists are agnostic on the matter of rebirth. MORE
I maintain that in Enlightenment, the goal is alleviating the suffering of the world through peaceful education. Nirvana is for the selfish monks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment
Good Morning! Breakfast is served...
Last edited by LuminousTruth; 12-21-2014 at 09:10 AM..
When did the wheel of rebirth become a necessary theological aspect of Buddhism?
The Four Noble Truths do not mention it,
The Noble 8 Fold Path does not hint to it,
The Buddha said to question his quotes,
The Community does not hold on to it,
The Wheel of Life illustrates in a popular way the essence of the Buddhist teachings, the Four Truths: the existence of earthly suffering, its origin and cause, the ending or prevention of misery and the practice path to liberation from suffering. Interactive Tour of the Wheel of Life
The Budhhist teaching - in Theravada, anyway - is that 'salvation': that is, escape from the cycle of rebirth, in is our individual hands. I don't disagree that I am more in favour of a more humanist view of making this one existence of ours (the atheist view) better, if possible. Others have criticized the Theravadin view as 'selfish', but that is, nevertheless, the view.
I agree with this to a point. "nirvana", or being happy in life, doesn't mean you have to "teach". Unless it just means helping people to becoming as good as you at something if they so chose. Or at the very least the best they can be. I would say that to release suffering try helping people to be the best people they want to be. Don't squish them into some prefab mold. And like it or not, some are born with a different set of hopes and desires then that of "rational people". So have some warrior type rob runners ready.
Perhaps I could leave it to some Buddhist to explain that 'Enlightenment' and 'Nirvana' do not have those meanings in Buddhism.
And that doesn't mean that in the way you use the terms there is anything wrong with them, but that it is pointless to apply it Buddhism and say that is what it 'Really' is, or ought to be.
Undoubtedly it is, but what Is, is the "Is" you are referring to needs to be correctly identified by the generically appropriate terms.
I mean... you can call successful social reform 'Nirvana', if you must. You can call your newly decorated chopper -bike Nirvana, if you want, but you cannot reasonably go and tell the Buddhist forum that this is what it is, with the implication that if they mean something else, they have got it wrong.
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