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This is the odd juxtaposition we face today. You have a religious right that prior to 2016 followed the whole family values ideology as well as "law and order" and voted for politicians who pandered to them and to that. Say what you want about that and some of the hypocritical individuals who came and went on that side. But at least they did have a line that politicians simply could not cross publicly.
Now its all about winning at all costs. Being a good person and not lying and committing crimes are not a deal breaker any longer. And the recent chatter that the more flawed the candidate the more they believe its some sort of divine intervention. And no matter how bad person that candidate is, they need to vote for him and god will sort it all out down the road and give them the politician victories they want. Because apparently god favors America with 5% of the worlds population over the rest of the world and favors one political party over the other.
I don't disagree, although I date the moral degeneration of Christian Fundamentalism further back than 2016. It really started in the late 1970s and got going in earnest during the 1980s with the Moral Majority. The sea change there was the shift from a general distaste for any sort of political entanglements, to seeing it as a Christian duty, and indeed it wasn't until the late 1980s that a consensus formed that the Bible promotes the notion that life begins at conception (hence famously termed, "the doctrine younger than a McDonald's Happy Meal"). Wedge issues were being identified and exploited. This process was a long-game activity that took time and patience. It began to gain real traction and power around 2007 or so, and reached full flower, yes, from 2016 on. That's when evangelicals quite even pretending to be morally upright and in favor of Mom and apple pie.
Just to clarify, the Unitarians are considered "post-Christian" and "non-creedal" so they do not teach against the Trinity, they simply don't care what you believe about it so long as you subscribe to their "covenant" which is basically to love and welcome everyone equally. In theory if not always in practice, they even are fine with atheists joining.
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I was raised Christian but have been UU for years. In accordance with those values, I think how you treat your fellow man is more important than what you believe in regard to Jesus, God, etc.
Too many "Christians" behave in un-Christian ways, not following what I would consider to be a Christ-centered life.
I just try to follow the 7 UU Principles. The 1st and 7th Principles are what led me to Unitarianism
1st Principle: The inherent worth and dignity of every person
2nd Principle: Justice, equity and compassion in human relations
3rd Principle: Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations
4th Principle: A free and responsible search for truth and meaning
5th Principle: The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large
6th Principle: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all
7th Principle: Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part
I was raised Christian but have been UU for years. In accordance with those values, I think how you treat your fellow man is more important than what you believe in regard to Jesus, God, etc.
Too many "Christians" behave in un-Christian ways, not following what I would consider to be a Christ-centered life.
I just try to follow the 7 UU Principles. The 1st and 7th Principles are what led me to Unitarianism
1st Principle: The inherent worth and dignity of every person
2nd Principle: Justice, equity and compassion in human relations
3rd Principle: Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations
4th Principle: A free and responsible search for truth and meaning
5th Principle: The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large
6th Principle: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all
7th Principle: Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part
You've inspired me. Tomorrow I will look further into this.
The size of a group doesn't reliably equate to its influence.
You ask why Christian thought is in the drivers seat -- well, the Christian fundamentalist population is at best a third of the US total population and far less than that elsewhere in the world plus heavily concentrated in the Bible Belt, but because of synergies with political parties and certain entrenched structural advantages and too much complacency in the rest of the electorate, have already managed to erode and outright reverse settled law in this country and could very well get their disgraced champion back in the driver's seat. That religious group has had outsized influence for decades now, ever since the 1980s at least. And they have become morally bereft, or at least abandoned any pretense of ethics and integrity. You can get get the Overton window to move quite a bit when you are willing to shamelessly promote all sorts of unethical and disingenuous behavior and, in fact, do it in the name of god.
I'm actually not shocked with their behavior now. It was always there, albeit more behind closed doors.
I was treated terribly growing up in Appalachia by many Christians. I attended a fire-breathing Southern Baptist church. I started having doubts as a little kid, maybe ten or so, thinking the stories were hokey at best. They didn't seem to explain much of anything with how the world was at that time. A lot of fables, pseudo-history, and old wives' tales.
If you don't buy all of that "hook, line, and sinker," as we say, you're an outcast and less than. It might be somewhat better now in day-to-day life, but from a public perspective, it's just as bad if not worse.
I was raised Christian but have been UU for years. In accordance with those values, I think how you treat your fellow man is more important than what you believe in regard to Jesus, God, etc.
Too many "Christians" behave in un-Christian ways, not following what I would consider to be a Christ-centered life.
I just try to follow the 7 UU Principles. The 1st and 7th Principles are what led me to Unitarianism
1st Principle: The inherent worth and dignity of every person
2nd Principle: Justice, equity and compassion in human relations
3rd Principle: Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations
4th Principle: A free and responsible search for truth and meaning
5th Principle: The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large
6th Principle: The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all
7th Principle: Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part
I'd be interested in attending a UU service sometime (as an atheist). I picture it as a glorified poetry reading--correct me if I'm way off-base on that. There's a UU church conveniently located near a park and coffee shop that I frequent in Buffalo, and I've been half-tempted to check the place out in the past
I'd be interested in attending a UU service sometime (as an atheist). I picture it as a glorified poetry reading--correct me if I'm way off-base on that. There's a UU church conveniently located near a park and coffee shop that I frequent in Buffalo, and I've been half-tempted to check the place out in the past
You're not far off the mark.
They vary by area somewhat. I attended one in the Winston-Salem area once because I was visiting my daughter there and she was attending there for awhile. Down there the "liturgy" / order of service was very reminiscent of the evangelical congregations that are prevalent in the area except with hymnody from Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.
Here in upstate NY it is rather different. The church here follows the theme of the month put out by the denominational office. Usually some vague one-word topic like "renewal" or "love" or "resurrection" for the speaker to riff on and the various other classes and groups to center around. Personally I find it kind of tedious and pretentious but maybe that's just me.
I find it one of the great historical crises of history just at this time, and I am nervous but hopeful, as on paper, the dictators will lose.
The point above (mordant, I think) is right. This goes way back, to the Tea party, based on science denial bolstered with religion and putting up Sarah Palin who was clearly too ignorant and incompetent to do the job of president.
But the present social civil war goes back earlier. The racist right against the liberal left 60's to 70's. And equality and liberation, even though at the time there were worrying signs of a hate - cult emerging from it.
The trouble is that the hate- cult that the praiseworthy ideals of the left has manifested into might hurt the Democrats in the next election. The Left has to start pushing back against the crazies and purge them from film, TV and society, which is NOT to do other than utterly support rights and diversity, but for sanity's sake can we agree that a kids'football team can trounce a professional women's team, a bunch of women would die on a desert island without a rescue team and some capable men to sponge off and Cleopatra, Anne Boleyn and Isaac Newton were not black.
Toussaint L'overure, Mary Seacole and the Chevalier were, and deserve their place in history, (1) but Woke heads, do not make yourselves look silly by fantasising history and reality.
On the Other side, the current Situation was long in coming and ought to put paid to the Rightwing hopes of a US dictatorship. It doesn't hurt that not women who would have voted Republican whatever now feel their Own rights under threat and could switch their vote Like That. On paper, Biden should blue - wave it.
If so, we know what has to be done. We are in a proxy alternative to WW3. It can be halted in the east (let the reader understand) and defeating the first war - move before it gets going. Ukraine will join Europe and Nato and the threat will be ended. Concessions for peace will only delay the danger and make it worse.
But if the Russian dictator is stopped, the Chinese one will take note. With US help, never mind Japan and Korea, China can't take Taiwan. I'd guess that because dictators can't run a whelk stall, the countries will decline and subject state (siberia is already fighting Putin) will break away, and wouldn't Hong Kong like to break away from China and I see a world as it should have been after the wall and the soviet flag came down. The west and Russia and China were being pally and they were prospering after decade of totalitarian mess and muddle. And then the dictators got power and it's been downhill ever since. And now the Rightwing crazies are throwing in with China and Russia with their own crazy dictator.
If he loses, the whole threat of world dictators at war should collapse. Interesting times.
(1) along with the black regiments in the civil war, the black soldiers who held at the Bulge, and the black pilots who protected the US bombers.
P.s. As I recall we can't discuss evolution on this site but we can do politics. On my Other Piano we can discuss evolution (and often do) but not politics.
P.s. As I recall we can't discuss evolution on this site but we can do politics. On my Other Piano we can discuss evolution (and often do) but not politics.
This is the Atheism and Agnosticism sub-forum of the Religion and Spirituality forum.
We don't discuss Politics here because City-Data has a forum for Politics and Other Controversies. If you go over there and see the rude and hateful attacks to go on daily, you'll soon know why we don't want to share attitudes with people who post there. We recommend that people avoid that cesspool, unless you are trying to get your account banned.
We don't start threads about science because City-Data has a forum to discuss Science and Technology. From time to time, members make posts showing how poorly they understand science, particularly anthropology, archeology, geology, and evolution. It's OK to make a FEW posts to correct misunderstandings, but we don't need long threads about science in a forum about Religion and Spirituality.
Your post was left intact because we don't want to lose you as a member. I hope everybody recognized that your post is a one of a kind and do not reply to it.
There is of course a religious aspect to all of this. I won't go into it here as it may be seen as 'political' but I'm sure everyone is aware of it anyway.
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Interesting times.
but hopeful, as on paper, the dictators will lose. 
and I see a world as it should have been after the wall and the soviet flag came down. The west and Russia and China were being pally and they were prospering after decade of totalitarian mess and muddle. And then the dictators got power and it's been downhill ever since. And now the Rightwing crazies are throwing in with China and Russia with their own crazy dictator. 
