Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Every Year, a few Atheists sit back and enjoy all that the Christmas season has to offer. The gatherings of friends and families, the gifting, the decorations, the lights and candles, the aroma of a fresh Christmas pine. There are so many aspects of Christmas for anyone to be entertained
A tradition here at the Big Cat's House is the attendance of Midnight Mass. This is a decades old tradition that goes back to my younger theistic years. Instead of seeing at as worship, or as an obligations, I see it as pure joyful entertainment.
The mythology of the Nativity story, while making for an entertaining plot, is no more factual or less entertaining than the Appearance of Egyptian deities in the Opera we saw last Spring (the Magic Flute)
We know for example, that the Nativity story of Luke is a literary fabrication to have the character of Jesus born in Bethlehem (to point to a fulfillment of prophecy) as well as the fact that no travel was required for a census, no evidence exists that Yeshua ben Yosef was born of a virgin. No real evidence suggests that he was real, but that is not our topic here. (Scientifically speaking, while highly improbable, a virgin birth would always result in a female due to absence of the paternal y chromosome.)
SO all we know of this myth IS a fabrication. Yet the symbolism is interesting, a Deity being born not to kings but to peasants, impoverished, uneducated , in an occupied land....It makes for an excellent story. It is just that...a fictional story. Just like the one Wagner wrote based on Norse mythology.
SO as we sit quietly and enjoy the instrumental music , smell the fragrant incense and the greenery in the church, and take in the splendor of the architecture, a sense of peace and relaxation mixes with that pleasurable setting
Now as always some theists cry and tell me that I am going for the wrong reasons. I have even made theists cry in the past by simply going! Most who meet me in person quickly learn that I do not give a Rattus' norvegicus' distal alimentary canal opening about their opinion either way.
As a child, we had a church that saw Christmas as something fun, and the unwritten rule was "If you are having fun, you are sinning"... SO Christmas while not completely ignored, was reduced to one Sunday night of Christmas songs. (I later found out that the A-Hole pastor did not like Christmas personally so that was the impetus therein)
My parents would take us on Christmas Eve to a candlelight service at the local Presbyterian church, the BEST church in town. I always wondered why we could not attend there instead of having to attend the WORST church in town, my mom insisted it was about believing the right things. Apparently, believing in community, love, friendliness, hope, peace were not the "right things" in her worldview.
As an adult, I made the mistake of getting involved with a Church of Christ gal, who was of the tradition of NOT mixing religion with Christmas. She would go as far as to sabotage anyone else's fun if it did not center around her. I eventually stopped spending Christmas Eve with her as a result.
Christmas day as a kid...the only day that my dad stayed home and paid attention to his family. The only day he did not act like a total d*ck. Christmas was magical from that perspective at the time
I do not find Christmas to be a stressful time. I have , over the years, removed the people who brought stress and negativity into my enjoyment of the holiday I long ago learned to say NO to multiple Christmas party invites just like I say no to religious solicitors.
I focus gifting more on experiences instead of things. Who needs more junk? the ex-cat wife was the offspring of a hoarder and she had many of those habits as well, so people like that LOVED getting more things, but I gift things like meal vouchers, plane tickets, hotel cards, things like grocery store gift cards, things that allow a person to meet a need.
I prefer gifts which I can eat, wear, or do. If it is not in that category, I do not want it.
I decorate my house with lights , a tree in every room (Yes I have a Miami Dolphins themed tree)
And right down to table decorations, candles, little details that celebrate the traditional colors and decor of Christmas.
And Come Christmas Eve, after a hearty afternoon of eating, my sons and I will head to the Midnight Mass at the cathedral, where we will sit quietly and take in the beautiful service performed there. And just like when we leave most symphony performances, or the Opera or a good play, we will all say"WOW That was Beautiful. Well Done."
And move on. For in beauty there is inspiration, and peace and joy come from such.
The reverse Grinch. I can remember the magic of Christmas as a kid and the use of stars and angels as decorations meant no more than witches and pumpkins at Halloween. And even after I discovered Music and heard that in Antiquity, Christmas was supposed to be as sad and sombre as Easter , I though that Christmas music was uplifting if not actually merry.
I still enjoy a listen to the Christmas oratorio at this time of year, even though I now treat the 25 like any other day, and it was odd in the old days when I'd be eating a Burmese Curry in Bagan with Mrs Arq and the nieces and think gosh it's Christmas day today. And I'd hardly be bothered.
Point is - I raised my eyebrows a bit at the Grinch as I could see how it could be used by the Theist polemicists even if not intended. And it was - 'Atheism is the Grinch..trying to destroy Christmas'. (1) Which we don't. Not even me, though it's like any other day now, pretty much. But if there are any Grinches about it is those who fulminate and spleenify about the commercialism, Bible - oblivious merry making and the gluttony and drink or worse that goes with this indulgent festivity. Nay, nay and thrice nay, Jesus is the reason for the season; church sermons and dismal hymns, not hearth, home and merrymaking is what Christmas ought to be, says the Grinch in the il -fitting Santa costume. It is not atheism that wants to stop the tree, fairy lights and the candlelight winking off the endless rows of wine bottles, but at least Some of the theist side. Though I would risk a bet, merely a vociferous minority that nobody really cares about.
(1) I wonder if Pixilated Apollo's 'war on Christmas just got serious' game play is still available.
Because of how I was raised, Christmas was always a special holiday. Of course, back then, "we" were christians (somewhat nominally, nowthat I look back), and christmas traditions in our home did not center around the religious aspect...other than for sure going to church the Sunday before christmas (although that was a typical Sunday task anyway), and sometimes going to midnight mass with my father's side of the family.
As an adult, I always have celebrated christmas...as a national holiday and a "time of good cheer". My house is decorated. I make fruit flans for several of my closest friends, and a few gifts here and there. But -- as a Buddhist -- it's not religious at all now (other than listening to Perry Como's christmas records).
I remember one year when I was still teaching (at a high school), at a faculty meeting one teacher stood up and demanded that we have a christmas pageant in which all students would be required to sing christian carols -- even the Muslim students, even the Jewish students, even the Buddhist students. The principal explained that in our multicultural district that would be forbidden. And the teacher responded, "We're in the majority here! We can do any god damned thing we want!" Which I thought was a rather odd approach to celebrating what is supposed to be the most peaceful day of the year.
As a teacher and principal is large districts in rather multi-cultural areas around D.C., the religious side of christmas was mostly set aside by the districts, as we had large Jewish populations, as well as -- in one district -- large numbers of students with various world faiths, including Muslims and Buddhists. At the district where I became a principal the superintendents were always adamant about seriously downplaying the religious aspects of christmas, but non-religious decorations and traditions were allowed. For example, a long standing tradition in our school was a christmas tree in the cafeteria where the ONLY decorations that were allowed were 4"X6" flags painted or drawn on index cards. Thus there could be a flag of Israel right night to a flag of Saudi Arabia. Any student could participate with these cultural map decorations.
But there was one problem, and that was our choral teacher. She insisted on having a holiday concert, and would have the students sing a few christian carols, along with secular christmas songs. Each year I'd warn that one of these years the **** will hit the fan, and you'll be sorry you insist on adding in religious carols...and reminded her that the superintendent had sent each teacher and staff member a letter outlining the prohibition again religious observations in the school. "Oh that'll never happen". And then one year, the day after the night holiday concert, a Muslim mother came into my office to complain...well using the term 'complain' is putting it mildly...about her Muslim daughter being forced to learn and sing christian carols (in our district, the choral elective was a course, not a club). The wailing and sobbing (and I am not exaggerating) went on for a good 20 minutes. So finally I excused myself, went down to the choral classroom, had a VP cover the class and had the choral teacher come up to meet with the wailing, sobbing Muslim mother. Another 20 minutes, but this time the teacher was the brunt of it. After the Muslim mother finally left, the choral teacher said to me, "Why did you put me though that". "Because every year I've warned that someday the **** would hit the fan, and you laughed off every one of those warnings. You did it to yourself". Guess what...singing christmas carols in our school's choral class never happened again...and without any warnings.
I lived in the Washington DC area for most of my adult life, and we had the National Christmas Tree, another beautiful tree on the lawn of the Capitol building, and the typical decorations through Washington and at the malls, etc. But the most beautiful decorations I ever saw were the two years that I lived in Bangkok, Thailand. Stunning decorations. And that went along with the Thai tradition of if there's a holiday, everyone is welcome. Sanuk! Life should be fun, as much as possible.
I always get a laugh when people try to say it's a religious holiday, especially any genuinely monotheistic one. Especially in the US, I mean. Just because Christ got inserted in the name.
Maybe it is for a small percentage of people celebrating Jesus supposed birthday, even though there's no evidence at all that's his bday (if he even existed at all). That idea was pretty much invented out of nothing by Constantine during the forced Christianization of everything, for convenience.
"Christmas" is mostly a modern Saturnalia, and winter solstice celebration, with a co-opted Christianized name/purpose. The Romans had a gift-exchanging and feast-eating holiday at that time of December, for their god, Saturn.
The tree, decorating, and mistletoe... all pagan traditions. St. Nicholas has some roots in Odin.
But our modern holiday that has this name Christmas... is clearly about the traditions of gifts, family, tree, winter, warmth, meal, family time, etc. And just a general American celebration of our capitalist culture. And the music is great (including the great Christian religious music of the season), gifts are fun, the tradition of seeing family... the food. I love the holiday, it's my favorite. Has nothing to do with a supernatural God.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,551 posts, read 81,085,957 times
Reputation: 57734
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
I always get a laugh when people try to say it's a religious holiday, especially any genuinely monotheistic one. Especially in the US, I mean. Just because Christ got inserted in the name.
Maybe it is for a small percentage of people celebrating Jesus supposed birthday, even though there's no evidence at all that's his bday (if he even existed at all). That idea was pretty much invented out of nothing by Constantine during the forced Christianization of everything, for convenience.
"Christmas" is mostly a modern Saturnalia, and winter solstice celebration, with a co-opted Christianized name/purpose. The Romans had a gift-exchanging and feast-eating holiday at that time of December, for their god, Saturn.
The tree, decorating, and mistletoe... all pagan traditions. St. Nicholas has some roots in Odin.
But our modern holiday that has this name Christmas... is clearly about the traditions of gifts, family, tree, winter, warmth, meal, family time, etc. And just a general American celebration of our capitalist culture. And the music is great (including the great Christian religious music of the season), gifts are fun, the tradition of seeing family... the food. I love the holiday, it's my favorite. Has nothing to do with a supernatural God.
Yes, and while Christ is in the name, no one pronounces the t, it's "Chrismas" to everyone. The only signs of religion in this holiday is when you pass buy a church and they may have a nativity scene out front. Even they will still participate in the secular side with colorful lights on their trees.
Yes, and while Christ is in the name, no one pronounces the t, it's "Chrismas" to everyone. The only signs of religion in this holiday is when you pass buy a church and they may have a nativity scene out front. Even they will still participate in the secular side with colorful lights on their trees.
I live in an inner-ring suburb of Buffalo; my house is a few miles from the city line in one direction but a few miles from quite rural territory in the other. This morning I was driving out in that latter area, heading to my favorite park, and I noticed that the Catholic church I passed had a secondary, temporary sign on the outskirts of its property which read 'KEEP CHRIST IN CHRISTMAS.' That phrase has become something of a rallying cry in recent years, often uttered by people whom I presume to be more on the fundamentalist end of the spectrum rather than the more typically casual Catholics who are common in my area (the bumper sticker for the local Catholic radio station that I see on a regular basis contains the following message: 'Try God'. That is meant in the sense of trying out belief, not 'trying' His patience or temper or what have you. At least Catholics tend to be pretty hands-off about pushing religion). Made me wonder what sort of firebrand pastor was running the show at St. Gabriel's. In reality, the sign says little about the potential personality of the person who decided to post it. But it's an annoying symptom of the culture wars nonetheless.
For what it's worth, I'd argue that most people pronounce the t in Christmas but don't enunciate it in particularly noticeable fashion. It's the usage of the short 'i' sound rather than the long 'i' that I always wondered about
I always get a laugh when people try to say it's a religious holiday, especially any genuinely monotheistic one. Especially in the US, I mean. Just because Christ got inserted in the name.
Maybe it is for a small percentage of people celebrating Jesus supposed birthday, even though there's no evidence at all that's his bday (if he even existed at all). That idea was pretty much invented out of nothing by Constantine during the forced Christianization of everything, for convenience.
"Christmas" is mostly a modern Saturnalia, and winter solstice celebration, with a co-opted Christianized name/purpose. The Romans had a gift-exchanging and feast-eating holiday at that time of December, for their god, Saturn.
The tree, decorating, and mistletoe... all pagan traditions. St. Nicholas has some roots in Odin.
But our modern holiday that has this name Christmas... is clearly about the traditions of gifts, family, tree, winter, warmth, meal, family time, etc. And just a general American celebration of our capitalist culture. And the music is great (including the great Christian religious music of the season), gifts are fun, the tradition of seeing family... the food. I love the holiday, it's my favorite. Has nothing to do with a supernatural God.
Christmas music is almost as awful as capitalism, lol. I'm pretty anti-holiday in general; just find the days to be boring and devoid of any personal meaning. These days, I find them more reminiscent of peak pandemic than anything, with most of the places I'd like to go shut down and the streets eerily quiet. At least I can always count on the casino to be open 24/7/365. And I do get along with my family, even if basically all of them are religious believers.
Man, I love 80% of the Christmas music. Mariah Carey sucks, yeah, but O Holy Night... definitely not awful!
I mostly am in general, but there are a few that remind me of my childhood... that's the main reason for me.
'Awful' is too strong, as there's very little music of any genre that I find truly awful. But I would never choose to listen to Christmas music if left to my own devices. I'm sitting in a bookstore as I type this, listening to a loop of the same 30 Christmas songs they've already been playing for a month, and that inundation surely doesn't help matters any, haha. About to jump into the car to grab lunch across the street, and a few minutes of If These Trees Could Talk will be a welcome relief
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,551 posts, read 81,085,957 times
Reputation: 57734
Quote:
Originally Posted by primaltech
Man, I love 80% of the Christmas music. Mariah Carey sucks, yeah, but O Holy Night... definitely not awful!
I mostly am in general, but there are a few that remind me of my childhood... that's the main reason for me.
Go to Youtube and find some of the Christmas album by Gary Hoey called "Ho! Ho! Hoey" and take a listen. My favorite is his rendition of "You're a Mean One Mr. Grinch" which has some great guitar.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The reverse Grinch. I can remember the magic of Christmas as a kid and the use of stars and angels as decorations meant no more than witches and pumpkins at Halloween. And even after I discovered Music and heard that in Antiquity, Christmas was supposed to be as sad and sombre as Easter , I though that Christmas music was uplifting if not actually merry.
when I'd be eating a Burmese Curry in Bagan with Mrs Arq and the nieces and think gosh it's Christmas day today. And I'd hardly be bothered. 
