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I loved Christmas as a kid but it was ALWAYS about the presents. I mean, I was a KID.
I converted to Catholicism at the age of 19 simply because I longed for SOMETHING that would ground me, that would give me hope, that would give me some sort of stability or safety that I'd never had as a kid. But of course, Catholicism couldn't do those things UNLESS I completely shut off my brain to all its contradictions. (I mean, even as a child I wondered how people could reconcile the fact of so many different religions in the world, most of them claiming to be the ULTIMATE TRUTH? I mean, really? That makes no sense at all in ANY other context, so how on EARTH can people make any sense of it at all if they have, you know, working brains?!)
Now, in my early 60s, I can still enjoy Christmas as a non-religious holiday, but I have to admit, I sometimes do long for the days when I just MADE MYSELF BELIEVE even though it made no sense. I mean, "Oh Holy Night" is a beautiful, beautiful song, and I loved it for a long time, and I still do, but I loved it more -- or maybe just differently -- when it actually MEANT something to me, as in during my Catholic days.
Does that make sense to anyone? That we can maybe be a tiny, tiny bit nostalgic for the days when we just MADE OURSELVES BELIEVE because it was, well, maybe comforting in some ways?
Of course, intellectually it makes no sense at all to have those kinds of religious beliefs. But I DO understand their appeal.
Maybe it's just because tonight I am missing my mom, who died 4-1/2 years ago (7/3/19), and I wish I could see her again someday ... but I know that makes, well, no sense at all. She's dead, and I know that.
Sometimes I wish I had been born stupid ... but that only lasts for a minute, because I really DO enjoy my brain 99.99999% of the time.
And happy holidays to everyone, however you celebrate them!
Happy Holidays, Karen, good to see you stop in here.
Last year was too sad as death neared for the pagan bf, and my daughter found herself with two parents caring for sick partners and nowhere to go on Christmas. We had a conversation about how now that Grandma's been gone since 2020 and her house sold in 2021, there aren't likely any more family Christmas gatherings in the future. SO, she said, next year let's blow off the whole thing and go somewhere warm.
The plane takes off Monday for Costa Rica. I leave CR on Christmas night and fly a redeye back to arrive early on the 26th. In between, I'm sure there will be decorations around, and in fact we made a rez for La Buena Noche dinner at the resort on the 24th. Since childhood, before I even knew it was a pagan thing, I marked the solstices and the equinoxes and became somewhat obsessed with sunrise and sunset times and moon phases.
I'll welcome the winter solstice from down there, where, I discovered to my delight, I'll also be getting about two full hours more of sunlight than I currently do in New Jersey.
I hope everyone has a great holiday if you celebrate anything, and for those of us in the northern hemisphere, the light returns!
I loved Christmas as a kid but it was ALWAYS about the presents. I mean, I was a KID.
I converted to Catholicism at the age of 19 simply because I longed for SOMETHING that would ground me, that would give me hope, that would give me some sort of stability or safety that I'd never had as a kid. But of course, Catholicism couldn't do those things UNLESS I completely shut off my brain to all its contradictions. (I mean, even as a child I wondered how people could reconcile the fact of so many different religions in the world, most of them claiming to be the ULTIMATE TRUTH? I mean, really? That makes no sense at all in ANY other context, so how on EARTH can people make any sense of it at all if they have, you know, working brains?!)
Now, in my early 60s, I can still enjoy Christmas as a non-religious holiday, but I have to admit, I sometimes do long for the days when I just MADE MYSELF BELIEVE even though it made no sense. I mean, "Oh Holy Night" is a beautiful, beautiful song, and I loved it for a long time, and I still do, but I loved it more -- or maybe just differently -- when it actually MEANT something to me, as in during my Catholic days.
Does that make sense to anyone? That we can maybe be a tiny, tiny bit nostalgic for the days when we just MADE OURSELVES BELIEVE because it was, well, maybe comforting in some ways?
Of course, intellectually it makes no sense at all to have those kinds of religious beliefs. But I DO understand their appeal.
Maybe it's just because tonight I am missing my mom, who died 4-1/2 years ago (7/3/19), and I wish I could see her again someday ... but I know that makes, well, no sense at all. She's dead, and I know that.
Sometimes I wish I had been born stupid ... but that only lasts for a minute, because I really DO enjoy my brain 99.99999% of the time.
And happy holidays to everyone, however you celebrate them!
You remind me yet again of the many reasons people can't seem to find peace being an atheist...
I don't long for the days I used to believe at all. Not in the least. In fact if/when I think about it, I am just glad I'm not still tied up with any of those notions. Not that those were bad times for me. In fact my childhood as a believing Catholic was really nothing of a negative experience. Except maybe the long sermons in church on Sundays of which I had little understanding other than to follow the cues instructing all of us to stand, or sit, or kneel, or say amen. Then stand, sit, kneel and say amen all over again.
Not far off from you in age, I still enjoy much about Christmas as explained in my earlier comment, but I find this longing in any form to go back to being religious or believing in such things rather foreign to me. Doesn't seem you were born stupid, and I don't really understand why you would want to be stupid even for a moment.
On the other hand I can certainly relate to how you are missing your mom. Coincidentally, today, very soon after I sign off here, I am going to make the drive to see my dear old mom, now 92 years old, for something of a quick holiday visit. She has a very hard time hearing me, and because she really doesn't do anything during the day anymore, day after day, she doesn't have much to say either. Still, it means a lot to me to see her when I can. I still miss my father who passed away about 4 years ago too, but none of those emotions have me harkening back to the days before I became an atheist.
You ask if your comment makes sense to anyone. It certainly makes sense to me in some ways. Does my comment make sense to you I wonder...
Indeed happy holidays to everyone however we may find a way to be as happy as possible. Not only for Christmas but over the course of the new year too. All the days we can manage to that end!
As a kid, my family was essentially the type who went to church on Christmas Eve (but not much beyond that) so it was never particularly religious for me anyway. It was a tradition to give to the less fortunate, though, as well as spend time with extended family, ski trips and so on.
That said, as an adult/atheist, the holidays are fundamentally the same i.e. gifting, celebrating joy with my girlfriend/partner, our families, colleagues/friends and donating to charities; there’s simply no church or religion involved.
As a kid, Christmas was about presents and candy.
We usually only did the nuclear family, but occasionally grandma joined us.
Mom always talked about going to midnight mass, but we only did it a couple of times. It was special because we stayed up late, not really for any religious reason--it was just a mass.
These days, it's about getting together with friends and family.
And I LOVE light displays, we'll drive around to enjoy them.
We don't give a lot of gifts. I made hubby a new Hawaiian shirt, he bought me a new tablet, we're doing a secret Santa with our card group, and we make candy for the mailman and neighbors, and a white elephant exchange with another group. I love white elephant exchanges!
There's nothing frantic about the holiday any more. It's laid back and fun.
You remind me yet again of the many reasons people can't seem to find peace being an atheist...
I don't long for the days I used to believe at all. Not in the least. In fact if/when I think about it, I am just glad I'm not still tied up with any of those notions. Not that those were bad times for me. In fact my childhood as a believing Catholic was really nothing of a negative experience. Except maybe the long sermons in church on Sundays of which I had little understanding other than to follow the cues instructing all of us to stand, or sit, or kneel, or say amen. Then stand, sit, kneel and say amen all over again.
Not far off from you in age, I still enjoy much about Christmas as explained in my earlier comment, but I find this longing in any form to go back to being religious or believing in such things rather foreign to me. Doesn't seem you were born stupid, and I don't really understand why you would want to be stupid even for a moment.
On the other hand I can certainly relate to how you are missing your mom. Coincidentally, today, very soon after I sign off here, I am going to make the drive to see my dear old mom, now 92 years old, for something of a quick holiday visit. She has a very hard time hearing me, and because she really doesn't do anything during the day anymore, day after day, she doesn't have much to say either. Still, it means a lot to me to see her when I can. I still miss my father who passed away about 4 years ago too, but none of those emotions have me harkening back to the days before I became an atheist.
You ask if your comment makes sense to anyone. It certainly makes sense to me in some ways. Does my comment make sense to you I wonder...
Indeed happy holidays to everyone however we may find a way to be as happy as possible. Not only for Christmas but over the course of the new year too. All the days we can manage to that end!
Sorry, I guess I didn't make myself clear. It's not a REAL longing to go back to those "believing" days ... more of an intellectual understanding of HOW COMFORTING those beliefs can be (and were, for a tiny bit of time many decades ago when I desperately needed SOMETHING to believe in and hold onto).
I miss my mom, even though we had a very complicated relationship and I had not seen her in person for close to 20 years when she died. I miss friends who have died (including a woman who died way back in 1985, and I still miss her and think about her a lot even though it's been almost 40 years now). I miss my beloved kitties, who were a GIGANTIC part of my life; I have lost way too many of them in the past couple of years.
I mean, who WOULDN'T want to believe that they will somehow mystically, magically reappear in my life -- well, not my life, but at my DEATH? I KNOW that's a comforting thought for millions if not billions of people.
But of course, and as I wrote many times in my earlier post, INTELLECTUALLY, that makes no sense, and I know that, and I love that I've always been "the smart one," and I love my brain, and of course I would not want to go back to not using it. In fact, one of the things that puzzles me the most about religion is how people who otherwise do not believe in mystical, magical fairy tales somehow DO believe in their religion?
But I DO miss the COMFORT that religion sometimes brings. Does THAT make it more clear?
And incidentally, I hope you had (or are having!) a wonderful visit with your mom.
I am glad that the OP can join in church services -- seriously, not being sarcastic -- but I would personally feel like a hypocrite if it came to saying a prayer or singing Christian hymns, and I am sad about that because I was raised Methodist, although I am now an agnostic deist, so I would truly love to attend Christmas church services because of the nostalgia aspect and because I do enjoy the music and the decorations and the feeling of community and togetherness such services have always given me.
It would also be nice if I could put my qualms aside about being a hypocrite and start attending services for the fellowship as we are very isolated in our new home in Wisconsin and have not been able to make any real friends in three years -- but I just feel that I would be "cheating" if I did go to church when I am no longer a Christian.
Christmas never had the Christian thing attached for me - I learned that later. The consumerism is tragic. Really for me it’s a chance to slow down and love the fam, party if we are up to it this year, and put some effort into a meal we don’t normally make.
... put some effort into a meal we don’t normally make.
My stepson has become quite the chef and for some years now, he's insisted on doing all the planning and cooking for Thanksgiving and Christmas. My wife and I are both losing weight and do not want a giant Christmas meal to throw a wrench in that so he is going to make a fancy spread of Asian food, mostly Chinese. Makes his own dumplings, etc. We can partake piecemeal almost like tapas, as little or as much as we like.
My wife's iPad battery is dying after several years of faithful service so I ordered her a new one which will arrive in time for Christmas. We don't give each other gifts unless there's something we actually need. Many times in years past because of visitation agreements between households, we had a gift exchange on Thanksgiving instead of Christmas. We called it "Chrisgiving" (flows a little better than "Thanksgivmas" I think).
This is what Christmas should be, low-key and pleasant.
we have a local radio station that has 100 days of christmas, starts playing christmas songs non stop in september.
omfg!
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