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We have a new neighbor who seems perfectly "normal". She's a retired postmaster and friendly, smart, etc, but has a strong mainstream religious belief that really is not based on any proof other than writings in a suspect book, Moderator cut: Politics
I'm at a loss to explain people like her, and they're everywhere you go, it's not just this one person. Can someone explain this to me? How can people who appear normal have beliefs that are, in my opinion, delusional?
I will try with the religious part.
Believing is a choice. If you can choose it, it gives comfort in many ways. Faith is not based upon proof, unless you can accept the miracles around us as proof. I can get comfort in the hope that I will see those who loved me in heaven. I either will, or I won’t, but in the mean time I’m comforted. I feel sorry for people who aren’t able to feel this way.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 11-05-2023 at 04:58 AM..
Reason: Edited quote
Believing is a choice. If you can choose it, it gives comfort in many ways. Faith is not based upon proof, unless you can accept the miracles around us as proof. I can get comfort in the hope that I will see those who loved me in heaven. I either will, or I won’t, but in the mean time I’m comforted. I feel sorry for people who aren’t able to feel this way.
You were doing ok until the end. You want to believe 'comfortable lies' as they say, fine. You want to deprecate those who don't believe in the unprovable, not so fine. Even that doesn't matter, but when those who believe such unverifiables get together and indoctrinate, evangelise, intimidate and get authority to interfere with others, that's when the pushback has to start.
I'm fine with and understand the comfort you get and even understand why you feel sorry for those who don't have such comfort. But the choice is, Hard truths or comfortable lies, and the truth is worth it. We could say that we feel sorry for those who are unable to reason out reliable claims from invalid ones, but there's no point as they feel they have Secrets that others don't, so pity is wasted. They are happy (or say they are) and don't need our pity so we don't waste it on them. We get on with pushing the influence of believers in the unvalidated (and religion is the worst ny far) out of society, law (oh yes) and politics.
I still don't totally get it, even though I've seen this sort of thing many times over the years. But there's some sound rational answers here, thanks for the help.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 11-05-2023 at 05:11 AM..
There are many documented miracles that are unexplainable by science. And near death experiences. I suppose there never is 100% perfect slam dunk proof, so there is always going to be some amount of faith required to believe. That's the beauty of it, what makes it special. Maybe some things just can't be proven. Skeptics like the OP will probably never believe anything they haven't seen for themselves.
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There are many documented miracles that are unexplainable by science. And near death experiences. I suppose there never is 100% perfect slam dunk proof, so there is always going to be some amount of faith required to believe. That's the beauty of it, what makes it special. Maybe some things just can't be proven. Skeptics like the OP will probably never believe anything they haven't seen for themselves.
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There are many documented miracles that are unexplainable by science. And near death experiences. I suppose there never is 100% perfect slam dunk proof, so there is always going to be some amount of faith required to believe. That's the beauty of it, what makes it special. Maybe some things just can't be proven. Skeptics like the OP will probably never believe anything they haven't seen for themselves.
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There are many anecdotally claimed miracles, but somehow they don't get verified. I might mention two I looked into - a couple of Catholic priests who survived a nuclear bomb (1). This appears to be true, but the possible reasons for the survival were left out, and a particular favorite of mine - Fatima - turned out to have explanations which are there to to be found, but nobody looks.
As for NDE's, we see the problem there - believers in miracles, the supernatural and stuff science can't explain, rush to demand we accept NDEs as a supernatural event before we even know what's doing it.
Look, I enjoy creepy and mysterious stuff as much as anyone else, and it would be unutterably cool to find that ghosts, Bigfoot or flying saucers were real, but so far, the validation isn't there. Faith is indeed a factor. People are pulled into this or that religion, fad or cult, and once Faith is invested, habitually, doubt and skepticism is dismissed (usually as bias) and the explanations of science deprecated rather as you did here "Skeptics like the OP will probably never believe anything they haven't seen for themselves". Fact is that the person doing logic and evidence wrong tries to make out that the rational skeptic is doing it wrong, while admitting that some faith is required, as well as pretending that "100% slam dunk proof is required". Not really.
There was no 100% slam dunk proof of the Higgs -Boson (now verified), nor is there for abiogenesis, nor of multiverses, dark matter or string theory. But those are or were put forward as credible hypotheses and the Faithful deprecate science for 'Believing' in 'Theories' that haven't got 100% slam dunk proof.
You see the inverted reasoning of faithbased thinking?
What science, the rationalists and skeptics ask for is better than anecdotal claims backed up by faith, and a demand that anecdotes, dubious films and photos and belief in the supernatural be backed up with something a bit more credible than repeating the claim without looking into it too much, and deprecating rational skepticism and science as closed minded and biased.
"It is not the skeptic who needs to require less evidence, but the believer who needs to demand more" (Qualiasoup 'open minded')
(1) others now discredited are the blackened corpse that came to life and the oft -repeated mother who was curedof cancer overnight when they prayed for her.
We have a new neighbor who seems perfectly "normal". She's a retired postmaster and friendly, smart, etc, but has a strong mainstream religious belief that really is not based on any proof other than writings in a suspect book, Moderator cut: Politics
I'm at a loss to explain people like her, and they're everywhere you go, it's not just this one person. Can someone explain this to me? How can people who appear normal have beliefs that are, in my opinion, delusional?
You apparently are speaking about a religious belief, and perhaps the Bible. I dare say, I would never question if someone were "normal" or not, based upon a belief in GOD or a higher power, but that is me.
The more important question in my mind is why does it bother you.? How would you feel if I turned it around and said the very same things about you simply because you choose to not believe? Does that make you less than normal? I don't think so, but we have religious freedom in this country and for that I will be eternally thankful.
You apparently are speaking about a religious belief, and perhaps the Bible. I dare say, I would never question if someone were "normal" or not, based upon a belief in GOD or a higher power, but that is me.
The more important question in my mind is why does it bother you.? How would you feel if I turned it around and said the very same things about you simply because you choose to not believe? Does that make you less than normal? I don't think so, but we have religious freedom in this country and for that I will be eternally thankful.
That would be fine IF "they" also lived and let live, instead of forcing their religious beliefs on society.
I don't feel anybody pushing their religious beliefs on me.
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