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The way you describe NY's orderly, rules-oriented culture is so interesting. That mindset would be a perfect fit for me, and I'm hoping to move to NY next year. (You also taught me a new word - 'martinet'.)
New York never really had individualism as an ideology though it was ahead of Philadelphia in that regard. I had lunch with my college history advisor, who opined that Philadelphia's port fell behind New York's because of NY's relatively relaxed regulation. A friend who now lives near DC says DC is even more suffocating. That being said, New York's huge wave of immigration in the late 1800's and early 1900's, including my ancestors, came from authoritarian or totalitarian countries such as the Austria-Hungarian Empire or Czarist Russia. They were much more accepting of direction, and that gave Tammany Hall some fuel. Even their descendants feel that way. I am one of the few that does not feel likewise, mostly because I sense that a lot of government functionaries just aren't very bright. I was one of the few at my law school that correctly figured gasoline prices would drop as a result of Reagan's decontrol shortly after January 20, 1981. I feel, even now, that if we had "the best and the brightest" in most government bureaucracies, things would be better. My eyes roll when I see empty bike lanes beside jammed traffic.That strikes me as being the product of stupidity, ideology, or both.
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Originally Posted by jcp123
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Originally Posted by ckhthankgod
I'm thinking it is ironic in terms of ranking the state high for those things, as some would say that there have been issues with getting the cannabis industry off the ground and issues with the criminal justice system.
Also, some of the things may not come into play for many people. For instance, it gave the state a low grade for tobacco freedom.
I also wonder if NYC skews things, as it has its own income tax, as does Yonkers. The rest of the state doesn't.
Ah, makes sense. My first thought was likewise there’s an irony in how the cannabis rollout has been handled. The justic system here, I do t know enough about yet to offer a commentary on.
Criminal justice lenity does not equal freedom. In fact, when we let the criminal class run amok it diminishes freedom. Anarchy is the enemy of liberty.
As for the botched cannabis rollout, it is also the product of stupidity, ideology, or both. Who in their right mind would design a system biased in favor of ex-convicts? The correct system would have been to allow the free market, with licensing, to rule, and then tax the heck out of cannabis.
Long story short, I moved to NY last year and compared to the other two states I’ve lived in, it’s MUCH more ingrained in the culture.
According to the OP's map which breaks things down into different categories of freedom, while California still ranks low overall due to very poor fiscal and economic regulation freedoms, California and many other Democrat states (West Coast and New England) still rank relatively well for personal freedoms. Not so much for New York and the other Mid-Atlantic states though, which have poor fiscal/economic regulation freedoms, but also below average personal freedoms.
If you go by this website, it seems like personal freedoms are weighted lower than economic ones, hence why TN and GA rank high thanks to their high economic freedoms, despite low personal freedoms.
If you want both to be above average, to the top states are (it's mainly the top 11 that are above average for both though)
1 NH
2 NV
3 AZ
4 MO
5 SD
6 FL
7 MI
8 VA
9 AK
10 MT
11 IN
12 MA
13 WI
14 CO
15 ND
16 GA
17 WV
18 TN
19 NM
20 UT
Freedom is an emotionally charged word. It means different things to different people, but no matter what someone's concept of freedom entails, the word carries a positive connotation. The CATO Institute wants to attach the word 'freedom' to their policy agenda. But when I look at the criteria used for this ranking, I don't see some universally accepted definition of freedom. This index is basically just a measure of how much each state lines up with the Cato Institute's policy positions. https://www.freedominthe50states.org/calculation
Exactly. The CATO Institute is Libertarian, you may agree with them on many issues but not on others. They believe in a minimum of government, including government regulation. Very often that is good, but sometimes it sounds good but in reality, its not.
Because New York is not wide open and sparsely populated like Wyoming.
New York is one of the oldest and first states to industrialize, a state that has seen the Love Canal, PCBs in the Hudson River, the Triangle Shirt Factory fire, the General Slocum steamboat disaster, etc., so we are not about to give up our regulations.
Not to mention that Downstate New York is one of the most crowded parts of the country, an area that in the 19th century already seen greedy landlords build substandard overcrowded tenements in the Five Points, Lower East Side and the South Bronx, so we are not going to give up our zoning. Sorry.
New York State is far from perfect, and I more than do my share of complaining, but there are real historic and legitimate reasons for the way we are. We have seen life without government regulation years ago so we are not impressed by Libertarian theories and guesswork.
According to the OP's map which breaks things down into different categories of freedom, while California still ranks low overall due to very poor fiscal and economic regulation freedoms, California and many other Democrat states (West Coast and New England) still rank relatively well for personal freedoms. Not so much for New York and the other Mid-Atlantic states though, which have poor fiscal/economic regulation freedoms, but also below average personal freedoms.
If you go by this website, it seems like personal freedoms are weighted lower than economic ones, hence why TN and GA rank high thanks to their high economic freedoms, despite low personal freedoms.
If you want both to be above average, to the top states are (it's mainly the top 11 that are above average for both though)
1 NH
2 NV
3 AZ
4 MO
5 SD
6 FL
7 MI
8 VA
9 AK
10 MT
11 IN
12 MA
13 WI
14 CO
15 ND
16 GA
17 WV
18 TN
19 NM
20 UT
Basically all of the states I want to live in anyway are there…so while I don’t exactly give these online lists much credit, they do kind of generally line up with my experiences. Western desert states are my happy place as a west coast native and NH was what I originally wanted if I were to live in the Northeast until I discovered how far it actually is to Rochester. But my kids are thriving here and my wife gets good care for her ailments (long story), so I can’t exactly say NY is a terrible place, with that plus nice summers, festivals, etc., but long-term I don’t yet know if I can endure being here past when the kids graduate.
Exactly. The CATO Institute is Libertarian, you may agree with them on many issues but not on others. They believe in a minimum of government, including government regulation. Very often that is good, but sometimes it sounds good but in reality, its not.
Because New York is not wide open and sparsely populated like Wyoming.
New York is one of the oldest and first states to industrialize, a state that has seen the Love Canal, PCBs in the Hudson River, the Triangle Shirt Factory fire, the General Slocum steamboat disaster, etc., so we are not about to give up our regulations.
Not to mention that Downstate New York is one of the most crowded parts of the country, an area that in the 19th century already seen greedy landlords build substandard overcrowded tenements in the Five Points, Lower East Side and the South Bronx, so we are not going to give up our zoning. Sorry.
New York State is far from perfect, and I more than do my share of complaining, but there are real historic and legitimate reasons for the way we are. We have seen life without government regulation years ago so we are not impressed by Libertarian theories and guesswork.
Exactly, as it is a state that has always been a top state in terms of population, industrialization, immigration/migration, etc. and all in a state that is 30th in land size, but has 20 million people. Basically, imagine NC doubling its population, as both state are essentially the same in land area, but NC has about half the population. So, NY is a state that has gone through some things that other states were late to experience, if at all.
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