Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
They aren't. GrandviewGloria is a master of satire.
That, and a master of elevating actual rich people whines (often louder than a single-engine prop plane at 501-ft) into a tragic story of hardship and struggle.
Should the Madison airport close? Is there any large expanse of flat land in the county where it can be relocated?
Not and be an airport controlled by "Madison the City". It would have to be moved far north or west (outside city limits) to find enough land, and that would be after a massive fight from the people already in those locations. They don't want rich doctors and lawyers flying over their heads either.
No, the MtC Airport is where it will always be, where it has been since 1941, just like the old Jackson Municipal airport is where it will always be. The houses to the north and apartments to the south will always be filled with people who cannot afford to live elsewhere, or who were sold on the place during a bit of mid-week silence. Restricted flight hours may come in the future, but as of now anyone can take off or land 24/7/365.
And as BellaDL said, the majority of flights are probably training flights. Student pilots, whether an M.D., J.D., or just some regular person getting uppity, need a minimum number of solo landings and take-offs before they can test for their general aviation license. Literally the same "cheap little plane" taking off, climbing to above 500-ft, circling over houses not in the approach zones, landing, taking off, circling, landing, ad infinitum. This is where the rich people whining comes from, when the circling planes wander over country clubs and golf course subdivisions.
I'll note that the entire area is in airspace controlled by the Jackson International (JAN) tower. I think there are flight restrictions above 700-ft. I don't know if those restrictions are only during IFR conditions, or all the time. But either way, student pilots doing touch-and-gos will generally stay below that altitude so they don't have to communicate and coordinate with the JAN tower on every loop, and also to save fuel.
Last edited by An Einnseanair; 02-01-2023 at 08:06 AM..
Thank you for that clip! Now, I know what my older friends were talking about. I'd heard those names, forever, and got the meaning through context: partially, anyway. However, since that's from before my time, really (and since I grew up mostly without a television - Mom would trade TVs for cigs and drugs, as soon as a john would bring her one - then, as an adult, I banned TVs from our homes, in order to spare our children from downmarket distractions), I'd never actually seen more than glimpses of 'Charlie Brown'.
When someone called Mississippi's Ag Commissioner 'Howdy Doody', I had to look at YouTube videos of the '50s children's show (that puppet was SCARY: but the National IQ was 102, back then, as opposed to the current 98, and I guess kids were made of sterner stuff, and could cope). ...same, actually, for Haley Barbour, when The Oracle called him 'Governor Boss Hog',which caused me to start using that moniker (afterward, the entire Internet was calling Haley 'Boss Hog', and I'm truly sorry). That was my first time to see any 'Dukes of Hazzard'. Close scrutiny of Bo Duke's jeans, made the ten minutes I watched, almost-bearable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadory
Also, who doesn't like Snoopy? I don't know anyone who doesn't like stories about Snoopy and the Red Baron! The entire situation is vexing but my overriding concern is Madison's criticism of the Red Baron and Snoopy. It is a story about America's most beloved beagle engaged in a dogfight against an evildoer for crying out loud.
Oh, that was only to clarify what my older friends mean, when THEY say "Snoopy and the Red Baron". Their own associations with 'Charlie Brown' characters, are not-so-great. Cheerleaders and Sorority Suzies were big on Charlie Brown. So, my friends associate Snoopy with mandatory "Pep Rallies", and insufferably goody-two-shoes "Good Girls" - the sort of girls who'd go down to the New Orleans French Quarter, and loudly ask the street musicians to "Do Mister Bojangles" (not because they liked the song, but as a way of virtue-signaling: doing what they were SUPPOSED TO DO, and being what they were SUPPOSED TO BE). Those Sorority Suzies with the "Snoopy Theme" rooms, and cheerleaders doing "Snoopy Theme" cheers, were a crop of girls who'd grow up to tell their decorators, as if they were all reading off the same script, that they wanted built-ins flanking their fireplaces, big-screen TVs facing their beds (because their husbands supposedly wanted them), ceiling fans over their beds (because their husbands supposedly wanted them), islands in their kitchens, and houses that were "different" (but exactly like the homes of everybody they knew).
Lenin said that the best way to control opposition, is to lead it. My older friends were savvy enough, as kids, to sense that the people telling them that they were supposed to say "Groovy!", and to say "Don't trust anyone over 30" - the people out in Yankeeland, telling them that they were supposed to identify with Charlie Brown, were supposed to "dig Rock-'n-Roll music", and were supposed to find 'Tommy' and 'Jesus Christ Superstar' and 'Up With People' "relevant", were just controlling opposition. Charlie Brown, to them, was just another form of Controlled Opposition.
Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 02-02-2023 at 07:45 PM..
That, and a master of elevating actual rich people whines (often louder than a single-engine prop plane at 501-ft) into a tragic story of hardship and struggle.
The 'Actual Rich People' are GONE. Bitsi, Izzi, Babette, Moosie, and Skip, departed, before they earned their 'B' (...illionaire) - actually, before they became centimillionaires. We left long before our position on the Leveraging Fulcrum we'd constructed, with Bitsi and Izzi and Babette and a few bankers from South Mississippi, had reached the Sweet Spot. We were barely One Percenters, at the time of our departure (it was during the Depression of '08, which had hit the Portland real estate market fairly-hard. On the other hand, Mayor Mary's Miracle was keeping Madison's housing market stable. Even new construction was selling, in Madison, at a time when builders and developers, nationwide, were going bankrupt. We were able to sell our Madison 'Creole Compound' at top-Dollar, to a pair of surgeons. At the same time, we bought a 'Modernist Masterpiece' in Lake Oswego, for very little. The Biotech guy who'd owned our new house, had allowed a skank love-interest (I'd say she was worse than Courtney Love: but really, they were on a par) to redecorate, and the house wasn't selling, in that soft market: her choices were HippieDippie: anathematic, to would-be purchasers of a Brutalist composition in concrete, glass, and maple. In we came, with a good decorator, and the place was back-on-theme, and showable, again. A few years later, after, shorting the market, in the hours following the '08 election, and leveraging like the lunatic I am, during the recovery, I'd managed to advance our position a bit. So, we sold the 'Modernist Masterpiece' (at a price commensurate with its pedigree and location),and built the Dordogne-style pile of rocks we have, now. Mostly, it's where we keep our clothes. We've branched-out. It's where I am, tonight, though. The granddaughters are back in Manhattan. We rotate adults - none of whom are NY Residents - rather than have the kids schlepping all over the country. In NYC, they have guards and tutors and drivers and helicopter pilots "of our nation", which is harder to do, outside NY and LA.)
Those most affected by the relatively-recent noise problem, are those in Madison's '60s ranch houses - reasonably distant the Airport, and nearby City Hall. Most of those affected, are retirees of modest means. The younger victims of the gratuitous noise, are first responders, police, healthcare workers, retail managers who work long hours, and robotics experts at Nissan. The retirees need to nap, if they've had bad nights. There's a young mother, two blocks from City Hall, who's trying to survive Breast Cancer. She needs her sleep, and her child needs to not become an orphan. Most of those with jobs, need to sleep at odd hours. Expecting people to be in bed by 10, so that they can get up at 6, when the first plane buzzes the town, is not reasonable.
Nor is it reasonable, to expect people of limited means, to soundproof their homes. Adding TWO layers of 1/2inch drywall, to existing drywall - after furring with metal, to create a sound break - IF you isolate the two new layers from each other, using Green Glue - is not entirely satisfactory. That's the 'Light Soundproofing' I described.
Price 'Green Glue'. Price Drywall. Estimate application. Remember, ceilings need that treatment, too. Remember that electrical outlets will need moving, too. And remember that inner windows will have to be constructed, or vibrations will carry from the outer windows.
Of course, there's the issue of tornadoes and sirens - and of smoke detectors in other parts of one's home. Once one has isolated one's bedroom(s) well-enough to block MOST of the noise from those planes, hearing sirens or tornadoes(or even one's own smoke detectors), becomes unlikely. "Actual Rich People" can afford electronic warnings. But can others?
Do you really think that a widowed retiree can afford this? Do you really think that an ambulance driver can afford this?
My apologies! This was begun as an entre nous sort of thread, between Mississippians, for whom Madison looms large, despite its tiny size. Natives know the players and the issues. I can see how others would be perplexed.
Madison is a town where we used to live. It was my family's last real home. Currently, a group of selfish people are flying low, in very noisy planes, all over much of the town. Fridays seem to be the worst, so locals are calling Friday "Hell Day". The noise has caused much distress, and has caused some critical real estate developments to fall-through (developers have repeatedly withdrawn, and the noisy planes are acknowledged by those of us with capital to venture, as the reason why the developers get cold feet). The parts of town most affected, are not being upgraded, despite forces which otherwise would cause massive upgrades of the housing stock.
Madison is a miracle. Mississippi does not deserve such a miracle. And it will never get another Miracle (so, it had better cherish and protect this one). Its Mayor (who, last time I checked, had been Mayor longer than any other woman in the history of our nation) is a miracle. Beginning in the early '80s, Mayor Mary Hawkins Butler took a pitiful little place, in a backward county, and turned it into the best place between Mountain Brook, Alabama, and Highland Park, Texas.
Thanks to Mayor Mary, Madison County has become the richest county in the state. Mary took seriously, Madison's 'Sister City' relationship with Solleftea, Sweden. She led a delegation (everyone paid their own way, by the way) to Sweden, and brought back businesses - Tech type businesses.
Madison has the only Swedish-American Chamber of Commerce in the South. Mayor Mary landed VOLVO (charmed the Ericssons, on trips to Sweden). Thus, Volvo were in the beginnings of establishing a facility north of Madison, when Ford and Nissan devoured Volvo (I blame the Wallenbergs, among the architects of Sweden's entry into the EU, leaving Sweden unable to defend its own auto industry). So, instead of a Volvo plant, Madison County got the vastly bigger Nissan plant - when built, around 2000, the world's largest auto plant.
Decades back, Mayor Mary was awarded 'The Order of the Polar Star', in Stockholm, by the King of Sweden, for Madison's relationship with Solleftea and the whole of Sweden. That is Sweden's HIGHEST honor.
Madison is listed at the top of all the good lists (where to retire, where to raise a family, best schools...), despite being in a state which mostly leads the bad lists (worst place to be a woman, worst place to be a child, worst place to be Black, most corrupt state, most polluted state...). That's the hope and transcendence brought by Mayor Mary. And I hate to see it destroyed.
Twice, criminal developers have paid to have Mary killed. Those guys came to bad ends. Others within that little cabal, have attempted to use 'Aggression by Proxy', to destroy her and her town. I have to wonder if this noise problem, which began after we left, is not more Aggression by Proxy.
Mary changes people for the better. Brief contact with her, brought me away from the Dark Side. And I knew a very big, very bad man - a major developer and landlord- whom she transformed into a very good and generous man. With her beauty and brains, Mary could have gone anywhere and done anything she wanted. One song she scribbled, topped the Country charts in Paris. Another, topped the Gospel charts in Sweden. This one, from fifteen years back, sums-up Mary's transcendent way of seeing the world. That is NOT my kind of music, and my people would have picked better images (This is some sort of fan video, by a resident of the town) So just concentrate on the WORDS. These are Mayor Mary's own words: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCkHRwAlUvo
Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 02-03-2023 at 09:55 PM..
I concur about Mary, she held the line when almost any other mayor would have succumbed to financial enticements and political pressure. Canton should be the pride of the 'Sip with its historic homes, layout, square and proximity to Jxn, the only reason it’s not? Leadership like Mary Hawkins Butler.
Obviously, the downside of Mary's careful planning and unyielding enforcement of zoning and building codes is that Madison has nary a Dollar General and only 5 (ish?) Tex/Mex restaurants!
Last edited by viverlibre; 02-04-2023 at 03:00 PM..
Those most affected by the relatively-recent noise problem, are those in Madison's '60s ranch houses - reasonably distant the Airport, and nearby City Hall. Most of those affected, are retirees of modest means. The younger victims of the gratuitous noise, are first responders, police, healthcare workers, retail managers who work long hours, and robotics experts at Nissan. The retirees need to nap, if they've had bad nights. There's a young mother, two blocks from City Hall, who's trying to survive Breast Cancer. She needs her sleep, and her child needs to not become an orphan. Most of those with jobs, need to sleep at odd hours. Expecting people to be in bed by 10, so that they can get up at 6, when the first plane buzzes the town, is not reasonable.
...
Do you really think that a widowed retiree can afford this? Do you really think that an ambulance driver can afford this?
I agree that Madison is a Jewel in Mississippi. I lived there for a year right out of college.
I partially outlined in my comment above (the one after the one you quoted) why the flight problem is happening at Madison.
To summarize even further, you have an airport with lots of people nearby with enough disposable income to afford lessons and airplane rental time; they also have the ability to take an occasional Friday off from paying work to circle around in a noisy little plane; a flight lessons company (Madison Flyers) with ten noisy little planes ready to go (two were just purchased last month due to increased demand); and no limits on flight hours.
All this is compounded by the nearby Jackson International which restricts general aviation flights in the area to below 700-ft altitude.
As to how to fix it, I don't know. On one hand you have the rights of the people with money who want to fly and the rights of the business who wants to take their money. On the other hand you have the rights of the other nearby residents such as your night-shift ambulance driver who need sleep.
But here are some "off the cuff" suggestions, which may or may not be implementable. The FAA controls flights, and I don't know how much authority a local city government has in this area.
Require all aircraft based at the airport to have adequate mufflers and/or max noise levels. This should be legal.
Restrict flights below 700-ft to specific routes. So these training pilots can't just circle randomly; they have to follow a set path. Even better if this path is mostly over the Reservoir. I don't know if this is possible. It may require adjustments to the JAN flight zones.
Restrict hours of operation. I know some small airports have done this. But it doesn't help the night-shift ambulance driver. Plus getting a gen av license requires a certain number of night takeoffs and landings, so it can't be too restrictive.
Tax the flight company into oblivion, which is anti-capitalism and classic "government overreach".
Close down the airport, which pretty much isn't going to happen.
Since you still seem to be plugged in to Madison maybe you can voice these to the proper person.
[*]Restrict flights below 700-ft to specific routes. So these training pilots can't just circle randomly; they have to follow a set path. Even better if this path is mostly over the Reservoir. I don't know if this is possible. It may require adjustments to the JAN flight zones.[*]Restrict hours of operation. I know some small airports have done this. But it doesn't help the night-shift ambulance driver. Plus getting a gen av license requires a certain number of night takeoffs and landings, so it can't be too restrictive. [*]Tax the flight company into oblivion, which is anti-capitalism and classic "government overreach". [*]Close down the airport, which pretty much isn't going to happen. [/list]
Let's look at the facts here.
- The airport was built in the 1960s first, well before the prosperity the City sees today came along, so I find it funny that people complain so much.
- At least twice over the past 40 years, with the last one coming over 20 years ago, there were legitimate studies done to try and relocate the airport and turn into a more regional facility, once prosperity started moving in. This would have been the right move. But for various reasons, these fell through. A site was even tentatively selected if I remember correctly.
- A joke of a study was done back around 5-10 years ago that drug on forever, which was way overpriced and amounted to nothing. This pretty much cemented the idea that the airport wasn't moving.
Once the facts are on the table, yeah, I think the best thing to do would have been to relocate and create the 'Madison County Regional Airport' or something like that. Best for homeowners and best for Madison. But I think at this point, too many investments have now been made at the current airport to make it feasible to relocate it anytime soon. However, things change over time, people forget things. If enough people got up in arms, and enough demand from businesses was created for a larger-jet-capable airport in Madison County, I'm sure it would come up again.
Last edited by Mississippi Alabama Line; 02-06-2023 at 09:48 AM..
This is from Madison (MS) Police Department facebook page dated Aug 5, 2022. Interesting.
**Update: The aircraft has been safely relocated to the Madison Airport. Madison Ave. is clear and open to all vehicular traffic.**
Aircraft Lands on Madison Avenue Near Rice Road
On Thursday, August 4, 2022, at approximately 7:34 PM, witnesses reported to the Madison Police Department that a small aircraft had landed on Madison Avenue and was located near the intersection of Rice Road in the City of Madison.
Police offices as well as the Madison Fire Department responded to the scene and upon arrival found that a Cessna 150F aircraft had in fact safely landed on the roadway. The pilot of the aircraft reported engine trouble which resulted in the impromptu landing. There was no damage to property and no injuries were reported. The FAA has been notified of the incident. The aircraft has been moved to the side of the roadway although one travel lane is partially blocked near the intersection.
Arrangements are being made to relocate the aircraft upon approval and consultation with the FAA.
Among the 123 shares this one by Gary V. Watkins was particularly interesting. I didn't finish reading the thread.
"Another forced landing, due to an engine issue coming out of Madison. This happened to me in April 4, 2020 and I landed on the Natchez Trace. If the pilot is reading this thread, please message me."
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
