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I just wanted to point out that medical systems differ pretty much across the board. Anyway, enough about all that. I mean, our system in the US is weird, too.
It is true that it's expensive to live in Canada. Higher housing costs, vehickes, everything. But you won't lose your home because you had cancer. All citizens and permanent residents have health insurance. It is administered by province, though, not nationally. Does not cover dental, vision, and so forth.
But let me tell you, going to a hospital and just showing his OHIP card and being quickly checked in, no papers to sign, no credit card to run, no "who will pay this if your insurance doesn't" forms, and they already have your medical history in the computer makes life easier when you've gone to five hospitals plus a PET scan facility.
Then a care coordinator calls YOU (or in my fiance's case, ME) to arrange for PSWs (like CNAs), the visiting nurses, OT, etc.
It is true that it's expensive to live in Canada. Higher housing costs, vehicles, everything. But you won't lose your home because you had cancer. All citizens and permanent residents have health insurance. It is administered by province, though, not nationally. Does not cover dental, vision, and so forth.
But let me tell you, going to a hospital and just showing his OHIP card and being quickly checked in, no papers to sign, no credit card to run, no "who will pay this if your insurance doesn't" forms, and they already have your medical history in the computer makes life easier when you've gone to five hospitals plus a PET scan facility.
Then a care coordinator calls YOU (or in my fiance's case, ME) to arrange for PSWs (like CNAs), the visiting nurses, OT, etc.
Oh believe me, the care coordinator or whatever you want to call it, works with the immediate family here.
I have never known anyone to lose their home because they had cancer for the record. Or actually, for any reason. Maybe I'm just lucky, who knows? Other than of course my brother dying of pancreatic cancer (cost him less than $5000 a year though).
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 11-02-2023 at 11:33 AM..
Reason: My typo
I'm having ptsd from the caregiving aspect. I was honored to care for my mother, but it was really traumatizing to watch her deteriorate so quickly. Before cancer, she was a vivacious strong woman. the cancer reduced her to skin and bones and her mental state had changed. Confusion had set in and that was another trying issue.
Just typing this makes me ache for her, because all I could do was make her comfortable and provide her care and companionship.
The sad truth about pancreatic cancer is that the survival rate is so low, and the aggressiveness is high so that sadly, you don't have a "long drawn out" road to death. From what people have shared with me here, the rapid progression falls in line with how the cancer operates and only the very few get to live a year, let alone two. As a result, the financial impact isn't as great as some of the cancers that drag on for years. Dementia, however, is hard on families financially. My grandmothers care cost far more because she lived for years in a care center (not getting any better, mind you). It exhausted her life savings and she had to go on Medicaid. When she passed, the center tried to claw back any remaining assets but my mom and my aunts were smart enough to pre-pay the funeral arrangements before the asset review came into play. Or else that would have been taken.
Oh believe me, the care coordinator or whatever you want to call it, works with the immediate family here.
I have never known anyone to lose their home because they had cancer for the record. Or actually, for any reason. Maybe I'm just lucky, who knows? Other than of course my brother dying of pancreatic cancer (cost him less than $5000 a year though).
Not specifically cancer, but medical bills can bankrupt people. There was a good article on the front of our local paper a few years ago. Guy had a stroke, ended up in the hospital for three weeks. Sent him home, nothing they could do. Then the hospital started coming after the guy for the $162K not covered by insurance. The wife tried to tell them they could not pay, but got no response. He was summoned to court for the lawsuit.
The wife called the newspaper to come with her, and she wheeled her husband in. Head stays down on a tray attached to the wheelchair. He cannot communicate and is not aware of his surroundings.
It was effective and made the front page. The plaintiff ended up settling for $25K and made a lot of noise about how they don't want to bankrupt anyone.
I personally do know one person who lost their house to pay medical bills. It was their dream retirement home in a beach town, but they were only there a year when he began to have severe back problems. Had surgery, just got worse. They had to sell to cover medical bills and moved to a small garden apartment.
I am fortunate in that I have always had good insurance through my employer, which I took into retirement. This year I started on Medicare. Not as good, but the other insurance is secondary.
But anyway, medical bills are the reason for more than half of the bankruptcies in the USA. My point was that this is just not a thing in Canada. Not that their system is perfect, either. Better health care is available in populated areas. We were originally in a rural place, and we had to drive three hours to a PET scan. In the end, he could not stay in his lakeside home because there was a shortage of nurses and aides in that area.
I'm having ptsd from the caregiving aspect. I was honored to care for my mother, but it was really traumatizing to watch her deteriorate so quickly. Before cancer, she was a vivacious strong woman. the cancer reduced her to skin and bones and her mental state had changed. Confusion had set in and that was another trying issue.
Just typing this makes me ache for her, because all I could do was make her comfortable and provide her care and companionship.
The sad truth about pancreatic cancer is that the survival rate is so low, and the aggressiveness is high so that sadly, you don't have a "long drawn out" road to death. From what people have shared with me here, the rapid progression falls in line with how the cancer operates and only the very few get to live a year, let alone two. As a result, the financial impact isn't as great as some of the cancers that drag on for years. Dementia, however, is hard on families financially. My grandmothers care cost far more because she lived for years in a care center (not getting any better, mind you). It exhausted her life savings and she had to go on Medicaid. When she passed, the center tried to claw back any remaining assets but my mom and my aunts were smart enough to pre-pay the funeral arrangements before the asset review came into play. Or else that would have been taken.
Yes, I only know one person who has survived cancer in her pancreas. It was originally in the adrenal glands, but it spread. They removed a part of her pancreas. She made 5 years, but now they found something in her bladder.
The caregiving PTSD adds to the grief. My bf originally had a wooden flute he would use to call us in the night when he needed something. When he couldn't hold onto it anymore, his son got him "the ding-dong", a remote device with a button he could press that would ring on a receiver.
After he died and I came home, I went to a diner for lunch one day. Every time someone entered, a bell sounded that was exactly the same as the ding dong. I jumped every time someone came through the door.
I texted his sons in Ontario to tell them about. One replied, "I still hear it in my sleep".
Not specifically cancer, but medical bills can bankrupt people. There was a good article on the front of our local paper a few years ago. Guy had a stroke, ended up in the hospital for three weeks. Sent him home, nothing they could do. Then the hospital started coming after the guy for the $162K not covered by insurance. The wife tried to tell them they could not pay, but got no response. He was summoned to court for the lawsuit.
The wife called the newspaper to come with her, and she wheeled her husband in. Head stays down on a tray attached to the wheelchair. He cannot communicate and is not aware of his surroundings.
It was effective and made the front page. The plaintiff ended up settling for $25K and made a lot of noise about how they don't want to bankrupt anyone.
I personally do know one person who lost their house to pay medical bills. It was their dream retirement home in a beach town, but they were only there a year when he began to have severe back problems. Had surgery, just got worse. They had to sell to cover medical bills and moved to a small garden apartment.
I am fortunate in that I have always had good insurance through my employer, which I took into retirement. This year I started on Medicare. Not as good, but the other insurance is secondary.
But anyway, medical bills are the reason for more than half of the bankruptcies in the USA. My point was that this is just not a thing in Canada. Not that their system is perfect, either. Better health care is available in populated areas. We were originally in a rural place, and we had to drive three hours to a PET scan. In the end, he could not stay in his lakeside home because there was a shortage of nurses and aides in that area.
OK. I've never known anyone to go bankrupt due to medical bills. That's all I'm saying. That's not surprising since way less than 1 percent of Americans filed for bankruptcy in 2022 for any reason. And those numbers have gone up slightly instead of down like they have been for many years.
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 11-03-2023 at 06:52 AM..
OK. I've never known anyone to go bankrupt due to medical bills. That's all I'm saying. That's not surprising since way less than 1 percent of Americans filed for bankruptcy in 2022 for any reason. And those numbers have gone up slightly instead of down like they have been for many years.
I haven't known many people, either. I had a friend, my GS co-leader (our daughters were friends) who had a severely handicapped son. Over 100 different anomalies, and they didn't know why. Mentality of a four-month old, blind, deformed skeleton, lungs not fully developed. Thought he would die at birth, then they said he might live until the age of two, but he kept going. He had close calls because he would get pneumonia easily, but he always came back. She would wheel and deal with the doctors about paying what insurance didn't cover, because one hospital stay for him would run $60K. One time she negotiated the hospital bill down to $12K and one of her brothers was able to give them the money.
Eventually she declared bankruptcy to discharge the accumulated medical bills, but in a way that she could keep their house.
She died of a brain aneurysm four years ago at the age of 55 behind the wheel of her car in the parking lot of her workplace. Her son is still alive, 30 years old, wears a size 4 toddler clothing. Not sure if her husband was able to continue to keep him at home or what.
Some people don't get any breaks. She always had a positive attitude and was devoutly Catholic with a strong faith, but I think stress contributed to her death.
She was part of the string of deaths for me that began in December 2019 with the death of my same-age cousin. Then this friend and my uncle in January 2020, my sister's closest SIL in February, my mother in March, then the parade of COVID deaths of my parents' friends and older relatives who I had known all my life as well as former coworkers, old classmates, etc. It just didn't seem as if it would ever stop. Then just when it seemed to slow down and my own sister survived COVID and came off the ventilator, my fiance got sick. It's hard to believe that back in 2019, I was happy. I try to hang on to remembering that, but sometimes it's hard.
I haven't known many people, either. I had a friend, my GS co-leader (our daughters were friends) who had a severely handicapped son. Over 100 different anomalies, and they didn't know why. Mentality of a four-month old, blind, deformed skeleton, lungs not fully developed. Thought he would die at birth, then they said he might live until the age of two, but he kept going. He had close calls because he would get pneumonia easily, but he always came back. She would wheel and deal with the doctors about paying what insurance didn't cover, because one hospital stay for him would run $60K. One time she negotiated the hospital bill down to $12K and one of her brothers was able to give them the money.
Eventually she declared bankruptcy to discharge the accumulated medical bills, but in a way that she could keep their house.
She died of a brain aneurysm four years ago at the age of 55 behind the wheel of her car in the parking lot of her workplace. Her son is still alive, 30 years old, wears a size 4 toddler clothing. Not sure if her husband was able to continue to keep him at home or what.
Some people don't get any breaks. She always had a positive attitude and was devoutly Catholic with a strong faith, but I think stress contributed to her death.
She was part of the string of deaths for me that began in December 2019 with the death of my same-age cousin. Then this friend and my uncle in January 2020, my sister's closest SIL in February, my mother in March, then the parade of COVID deaths of my parents' friends and older relatives who I had known all my life as well as former coworkers, old classmates, etc. It just didn't seem as if it would ever stop. Then just when it seemed to slow down and my own sister survived COVID and came off the ventilator, my fiance got sick. It's hard to believe that back in 2019, I was happy. I try to hang on to remembering that, but sometimes it's hard.
Girl. I am so sorry. I had a string of deaths too. I can hardly believe that I entered my fifties thinking everything was going to be great, but instead I had one death after another, till now I am 61 and God help me, I have had enough of death. Your post really resonated with me, especially the last two sentences.
The caregiving aspect is completely absent in sudden deaths. That's one thing they don't have to deal with. This doesn't make their grief any less, however. That's common sense.
You have to grieve your caregiving properly. I had ambiguous grief, because my mother was never considered to be terminally ill (causing anticipatory grief); it's just that she became a different person after her stroke. We just lost her - gone forever, despite remnants of the old her, or the odd "almost her old self" for 15 minutes to an hour.
I am still processing the last 2 years of 24/7 caregiving. My father is, too. It takes a big toll on a person over time. It's not discussed much in society, but it wears you down to nothing. My poor Dad was so enveloped in caregiving that he developed a urinary infection from not emptying his bladder enough in the day. We never slept properly, either, because my mother paced all night, or obsessed over temperature, changing the thermostat 30 times or more. Often times, she wanted my father to accompany her while in her pacing fits; but eventually he had to let her throw tantrums while he remained on his sleeping chair. She would accept, and then go sit in the kitchen until 5:30 am or longer, where she'd pace around the kitchen for 1 or 2 hours or more. It was really a sad situation.
She was better in the daytime, in general, but there times where she'd carry on like a nut if my dad left her alone for more than 5 minutes or so. I would try to calm her down, and it would work 50% of the time. Her neediness for my dad was pathological. Nothing we could do. Also, she'd go in phases where she would go to the bathroom 10 times or more in an hour, even though she never needed to go. She'd do this sometimes in the night, too, making my dad get up to go with her, even though she could walk perfectly fine on her own (and fast, too).
In the last 5 or 6 months of her life, she stopped wanting to have her hair washed. She wanted no proper bath - only a scrub-down with soapy wash clothes. And then there was her refusing to take out her contact lenses at nighttime. I told her that she always soaked her contacts in cleaning solution at night all of her life. She just ignored me and said, "My contacts feel beautiful; they're fine." I just let her go, and decided to buy a whole bunch of contacts for a few hundred dollars. We changed them every couple of days in the daytime. What do you do? One time, she had a rather serious nosebleed, and would not lie down properly and keep tissues in her nose. I was in tears that day. I had to leave the house because I couldn't deal with her anymore. I felt guilty about leaving dad with her, but he was calmer about it.
We had her on a few different medications: anti-depressants did nothing; one anti-psychotic helped a tiny bit. Overall, no supplement or medication did anything significant. She was too far gone.
I was told something interesting not too long ago about my mother. This person had a lot of experience with stroke patients, and is very well-versed in post-stroke life. He said that my mother probably brought in her stroke attack all of her past mental history of severe anxiety. Her stroke was a 3/5 (moderate-severe) -- not full-on severe or massive. That said, he doesn't think the way she was could be all chalked up to brain damage, but rather partially to past mental history and how she responded to the traumatic event of a stroke in itself (PTSD).
I still can't believe how my father and I got through this. Without each other, we wouldn't have. This just didn't go on for a few months, but almost 2 years.
There was no hope for her mind -- just gone. She had a lot of her cognitive mind left intact like memory, ability to read very well, do simple math, tell jokes, play Solitaire (attention span was too bad to do it more than 10 minutes). She could be very sharp-minded, understanding all the jokes on sitcoms she'd watch. But, sadly, she was emotionally insane.
Wow, it sounds like caretaking for your mom was very difficult. What we do for love... hats off to you and your dad.
Wow, it sounds like caretaking for your mom was very difficult. What we do for love... hats off to you and your dad.
Thank you for you kind words.
Please take good care.
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