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All I remember was that there was a Max & Erma's location nearby. Is that Ohio chain still around? We ate at that location, then also a Columbus location years later. Maybe the hotel was the next town over from Shaker, not sure. I only know with certainty that Shaker was mentioned, and we headed in that general direction. Stayed in a Red Roof Inn-esque place. Motel 6, Super 8, Ramada, etc. Feel like Hampton Inn wasn't as prevalent 25 years ago, though it certainly deserves mention along with the rest of those. My family was middle class to the core, hah. I always loved taking in my surroundings, but as a kid I didn't have any prior knowledge of the Cleveland burbs. Used to give the AAA Triptik a good look, but I didn't always retain it all, lol
I'll check out the links tomorrow. I'm at the sportsbook and there's nothing left to bet on, but I'm kinda tired and not as drunk as I should be for 1 AM
Correction: there are 7 Japanese basketball games left to bet on. Not feeling like being a complete degenerate tonight
Regarding blight, I live in Buffalo, which isn't too dissimilar from Cleveland. My impression has always been that there's a slightly better intact urban neighborhood to blighted urban neighborhood ratio in Buffalo than in Cleveland. Is there an agency or mere website that measures this sort of thing? With Chicago, you can throw out the ratios, because even if they may be theoretically similar to Cleveland's or Buffalo's, there's just a much greater landmass of 'nice places' to be. Last time I was in Chicago was 2022, coming home from Vegas. I had a good time in Wrigleyville on a Sunday night, went to O'Hare thinking I could fall asleep there, realized that the fluorescent lighting wasn't going to allow that to happen, then had a cabbie drop me off at a park that featured a Frank Lloyd Wright-style visitor's center of some kind. It was near the intersection of Milwaukee and Nagle, for potential googling purposes. Slept in the park for three hours, then flew home in the AM. Good times
ETA The 'park' in question must've been Caldwell Woods Forest Preserve. It was incredibly tranquil...the cabbie was reluctant to let me out there but the call was correct!
Quick notes: the hotel you were staying in was probably in Beachwood, the suburb next door to Shaker to the east.
I like Buffalo... a LOT. And, yes, it's very similar to Cleveland; perhaps the closest American city in similarity in terms of history, industrial heritage, residential architecture, and character.
I have lived in three of the four cities except for Miami.
At the current time, I would choose Cleveland as the people are a lot friendlier and the costs are generally lower in Cleveland than the others. I would live in Lakewood which is on the border of Detroit or Westpark.
Chicago is a lot larger and has a lot of benefits but crime is terrible and in the last two years, many of my friends are looking to leave Illinois.
I currently live near Tucson and while the natural beauty in the area is definitely unique, I find little to recommend it. It is a great place to visit but you don't want to live there.
I have not been in Miami is a long time and can make no relevant comments.
I think this is a fair summary. I like Cleveland and am rooting for a sustained come back. It has some great old downtown architecture, the University Circle institutions are world class, there are a few revitalizing pockets, some cool older streetcar suburbs and a pretty good setting at the crossroads of the Great Lakes and the edge of the Appalachian plateau. But, you also have to be prepared for Cleveland. If you expect a smaller Chicago or a flatter Pittsburgh by the lake, you will probably come away disappointed.
Wait, hold the phone... I said, yes, I recommended Chicago over Cleveland for the obvious reasons I stated. But when did Pittsburgh enter the conversation and how is Pittsburgh so much better than Cleveland? As though Pittsburgh is on Chicago's level? ... ah, no. Pittsburgh's a nice city, but way overrated by CDers, at least as I see it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpdivola
IMO, (and frankly statistically) Cleveland is a fairly disinvested city. It has continued to lose population into the 2000s and has relatively low income and educational attainment levels. It's pretty disinvested even relative to other rust belt cities (with the exception of Detroit). What is going on in Tremont, Ohio City, Detroit Shoreway, Edgewater, University Circle/Little Italy is great. But, they are fairly small areas for an legacy city in a 2 million plus MSA.
A couple things in reverse order: I thought we were talking about the city as opposed to "a legacy city in a 2 million plus MSA." Since when are we comparing blighted city areas with the suburbs? [and on this note, Cleveland metro-wise, compares well to any city in terms of the diversity, quality and diversity of its suburbs -- Shaker, Rocky River, Hunting Valley, Cleveland Hts, Lakewood -- are but the tip of the iceberg for Greater Cleveland]
Secondly, let's abuse this ongoing perpetuation misperception that Cleveland has these little tiny decent areas -- Ohio City, Tremont, etc., while surrounded (apparently) by a sea of blight... Wrong. For one thing, you missed several areas: like Shaker Square/Larchmere, Old Brooklyn and, Kamms Corners, to name a few. Also, collectively these areas aren't as "small" or disconnected as you're making them out to be. In fact, Tremont, Ohio City (with exploding, tiny Duck Island connecting the 2), Detroit-Shoreway and, Edgewater are like one large, connecting neighborhood where, if you didn't know it, you don't know where one ends and the next begins.
Finally, with these areas mentioned, and a few others not mentioned (ie Hingetown), we're talking about the 'trendy/hip' touristy areas of the City. Your subtext, that everything else is a sea of blight, decay and/or poverty-stricken is dead wrong. There are many solid, livable areas that are least 'trendy/hip/touristy' as you'd prefer. West Park, for example, is a solid old neighborhood ranging from brick bungalows to suburban-ish mini-mansions (the latter of which overlook the gorgeous Rocky River valley). And, btw, the aforementioned Kamms Corners walking district is right in the heart of West Park.
Then there are others, like Old Brooklyn (esp Victorian Brooklyn Centre -- a nationally designated historic area), most of Collinwood, in the far northeast corner of Cleveland, and even most of African American-dominated Lee Harvard. A solid working-to-middle class area of nice homes -- no blight and very livable.
So, no, you're premise that Cleveland has a few, tiny little spots of livability surrounded by miles and miles of blighted areas, even urban prairies, simply ain't true.
Since 1895, the most days over 100F was 108 (2020) and the least was 21 (1897, 1923) with the average being about 68. Most of the days are in June - August. 100+ days are rare in April and October.
Since 1895, the most days over 100F was 108 (2020) and the least was 21 (1897, 1923) with the average being about 68. Most of the days are in June - August. 100+ days are rare in April and October.
Monsoon season runs from July through September.
Meanwhile here in Florida we are getting UPPER 90s with high humidity throughout this week. And this is what we will be getting for the next 6 months. Yay.
Wait, hold the phone... I said, yes, I recommended Chicago over Cleveland for the obvious reasons I stated. But when did Pittsburgh enter the conversation and how is Pittsburgh so much better than Cleveland? As though Pittsburgh is on Chicago's level? ... ah, no. Pittsburgh's a nice city, but way overrated by CDers, at least as I see it.
A couple things in reverse order: I thought we were talking about the city as opposed to "a legacy city in a 2 million plus MSA." Since when are we comparing blighted city areas with the suburbs? [and on this note, Cleveland metro-wise, compares well to any city in terms of the diversity, quality and diversity of its suburbs -- Shaker, Rocky River, Hunting Valley, Cleveland Hts, Lakewood -- are but the tip of the iceberg for Greater Cleveland]
Secondly, let's abuse this ongoing perpetuation misperception that Cleveland has these little tiny decent areas -- Ohio City, Tremont, etc., while surrounded (apparently) by a sea of blight... Wrong. For one thing, you missed several areas: like Shaker Square/Larchmere, Old Brooklyn and, Kamms Corners, to name a few. Also, collectively these areas aren't as "small" or disconnected as you're making them out to be. In fact, Tremont, Ohio City (with exploding, tiny Duck Island connecting the 2), Detroit-Shoreway and, Edgewater are like one large, connecting neighborhood where, if you didn't know it, you don't know where one ends and the next begins.
Finally, with these areas mentioned, and a few others not mentioned (ie Hingetown), we're talking about the 'trendy/hip' touristy areas of the City. Your subtext, that everything else is a sea of blight, decay and/or poverty-stricken is dead wrong. There are many solid, livable areas that are least 'trendy/hip/touristy' as you'd prefer. West Park, for example, is a solid old neighborhood ranging from brick bungalows to suburban-ish mini-mansions (the latter of which overlook the gorgeous Rocky River valley). And, btw, the aforementioned Kamms Corners walking district is right in the heart of West Park.
Then there are others, like Old Brooklyn (esp Victorian Brooklyn Centre -- a nationally designated historic area), most of Collinwood, in the far northeast corner of Cleveland, and even most of African American-dominated Lee Harvard. A solid working-to-middle class area of nice homes -- no blight and very livable.
So, no, you're premise that Cleveland has a few, tiny little spots of livability surrounded by miles and miles of blighted areas, even urban prairies, simply ain't true.
I like Cleveland. But I stand by my post. It is still fairly disinvested in the neighborhoods. If you expect urban neighborhoods like Fells Point in Baltimore, Central West End in St Louis, Oakland or East Liberty in Pittsburgh you will probably come away a little disappointed. Cleveland neighborhoods just aren't as dense or vibrant. It has some infill apartment buildings and a few small commercial areas, but it doesn't have the intact historic urban core areas with dense residential areas or large commercial strips.
I'm just trying to be realistic for the OP. Cleveland is a cool city, but you have to set your expectations appropriately.
Would personally choose Chicago in the summer. While I don't love Miami (so take that bias for what it is), it has it's time & place. But summer is not one of those times for me. Ditto Chicago in the winter, but in summer it's glorious. Would honestly be an easy decision for me.
I am not super familiar with Tucson or Cleveland, though going to the desert in the summer is not high on my to-do list. And Cleveland I'm sure is fine, but less going on than Chicago.
Location: Miami (prev. NY, Atlanta, SF, OC and San Diego)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcenal813
Meanwhile here in Florida we are getting UPPER 90s with high humidity throughout this week. And this is what we will be getting for the next 6 months. Yay.
Not all Florida, let alone all Miami/Miami Beach, is getting upper 90’s this entire week or the next 6 months, but I already voted for Chicago:
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