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The "rules" and "catechisms" are systems created by various churches to facilitate following said teachings in a community setting. It sounds like you're advocating a kind of spiritual anarchy or fragmentation in which nobody agrees with anyone else nor would they care to share traditions. If this had been the case in history, then Christianity would have fizzled out very early on.
All major religions have their branches, schools, diverse systems of thought that evolve over time. This is how human societies work.
Nah, I'm advocating for a united unit. Do you think all Catholics agree with each other 100%? Heck no. But do you think they would say "I disagree with you! I'm creating a new denomination!"? Heck no. They are loyal to their church even if they have different opinions and viewpoints.
Problem is I think the Catholic church has evolved into becoming an exclusive tribe where many of its members say "we are the TRUE church! Join us! The catch is....you need to agree with ALL of our teachings with confidence before you can call yourself a member of OUR church". I think we should throw our pride and ego our the window and just call ourselves Christians and be one unit. Instead of a catechism, use the bible.
Problem is I think the Catholic church has evolved into becoming an exclusive tribe where many of its members say "we are the TRUE church! Join us! The catch is....you need to agree with ALL of our teachings with confidence before you can call yourself a member of OUR church".
The Catholic Church has always said this since Day 1. This is not an example of evolution.
The Catholic Church has proven that it can work. What pushes Christians away from it is the pride within the church.
I grant that all kinds of things can and do push people away from the Catholic Church, and pride among its members can certainly be one of those things; but simply stating the facts of what the Catholic Church claims about itself is not pride...
Rather than worry about the personal faults of those making the claims, why not actually refute the claims themselves and put them to rest?
I grant that all kinds of things can and do push people away from the Catholic Church, and pride among its members can certainly be one of those things; but simply stating the facts of what the Catholic Church claims about itself is not pride...
Rather than worry about the personal faults of those making the claims, why not actually refute the claims themselves and put them to rest?
I'll give you an example.
Imagine you work in a really big company that is known globally. You have a co-worker who is statistically the best performing worker in the company. Every month your co-worker has the highest marks. And the co-worker makes sure everyone is aware by saying "I AM THE BEST! I AM the EXAMPLE of what this company is all about. I am the TRUE leader!" and they say it over....and over....and over....and over.....and over".
It gets annoying. The fact that the co-worker is the best performer is great. Kudos to them. They deserve any accolade given to them and they deserve to lead the way. But with great power comes great responsibility. Nobody wants to be with a pompous person but I know a lot of people like being with someone who is humble and generous. In fact, the best people are often super nice and humble who hide their high performances.
When you have Catholic leaders and members of the Church constantly saying "WE are the TRUE church! Protestants? Repent and come to US!", it turns people off. Even if you are already Catholic, many Catholics have become "lay" Catholics and just stopped practicing and being active. Even going as far as becoming Protestant because it makes them feel closer to God....being part of a church that delivers a message of unity instead of bragging about how they are the "true church".
Imagine you work in a really big company that is known globally. You have a co-worker who is statistically the best performing worker in the company. Every month your co-worker has the highest marks. And the co-worker makes sure everyone is aware by saying "I AM THE BEST! I AM the EXAMPLE of what this company is all about. I am the TRUE leader!" and they say it over....and over....and over....and over.....and over".
The problem with this analogy is that both of these people are legitimate employees. You seem to be ascribing a certain legitimacy to non-Apostolic Christianity that simply isn't there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiz02
It gets annoying. The fact that the co-worker is the best performer is great. Kudos to them. They deserve any accolade given to them and they deserve to lead the way. But with great power comes great responsibility. Nobody wants to be with a pompous person but I know a lot of people like being with someone who is humble and generous. In fact, the best people are often super nice and humble who hide their high performances.
When you have Catholic leaders and members of the Church constantly saying "WE are the TRUE church! Protestants? Repent and come to US!", it turns people off. Even if you are already Catholic, many Catholics have become "lay" Catholics and just stopped practicing and being active. Even going as far as becoming Protestant because it makes them feel closer to God....being part of a church that delivers a message of unity instead of bragging about how they are the "true church".
It's not that the Catholic Church is "the best" among several legitimate options. When Jesus asked his disciples in John 6:67: "Do you want to go away as well?", Peter answered "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life".
If not the Catholic Church, where else?? This is a serious question.
The problem with this analogy is that both of these people are legitimate employees. You seem to be ascribing a certain legitimacy to non-Apostolic Christianity that simply isn't there.
It's not that the Catholic Church is "the best" among several legitimate options. When Jesus asked his disciples in John 6:67: "Do you want to go away as well?", Peter answered "Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life".
If not the Catholic Church, where else?? This is a serious question.
I think you missed the point with my analogy. If the Catholic Church showed more humility and did a better job at delivering Christ's message, I bet you more people would flock to the Catholic church instead of going away.
As for your question, during the times of Jesus, there was no Catholic Church. He simply gave Peter the command to build "a church". The answer to your question is: Jesus. The church closest to Jesus, historically, is the Catholic Church. Eastern Orthodox Christians may have a different opinion on that though.
But you go to wherever you feel close to Jesus.
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