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Usually, finding water isn't the problem. Finding water that is usable is the problem. Most places, it's so full of minerals, no amount of filtration will take out the bad stuff and the smell.
My daughter and her husband live about 12 miles out of Sheridan. They have a great well. But it's not fit for human consumption. It's close though, so they water their horses with it.
Most folks out by them have cisterns and haul their water in for the house.
Most of the places that are in the valleys, can get good surface water. Not drinkable, but can water the lawn and garden with it.
It's spotty around here. The best bet is to find the area you want, maybe even have your eye on the property. Then visit with the neighbors and ask what they're doing about water. An area that looks really good, may not have any water at all where as, an area that you wouldn't think had any water, has plenty.
Contact the state boys and get an idea of an area, but then visit that area and ask neighbors.
I've posted many times on this forum about water use/rights in Wyoming, so I encourage you to search for this stuff.
Just to recap, however, here's the high points:
There is no publication that explains in layman's terms the water situation in Wyoming.
More significantly, 99%+++ of the realtors selling land here don't know a damn thing about the water, and will tell you anything (lie, fib, mislead, or allow you to "misunderstand") .... or omit information ... to make a land sale (this is a major part of the lack of professionalism on the part of real estate sales people in this state ... I had a realtor/broker sell a local parcel recently with my irrigation ditch/easement going through that land tell his buyers that they could use the seasonal water coming through ... we're almost down to a "shovel war" now. The fellow is mad at me for being the "bad guy" and telling him what he can/cannot do with his property. Yes, it's "his property" ... but with an easement dating back to 1886 which he must respect for my rights and unimpeded access and water flow. And no, I cannot "give" him any of that water, I can only put it to beneficial use on my land or allow it to be available to the next junior water right holder ... who is physically "upstream" from me).
1) There isn't enough water, potable or otherwise, to meet everybody's requirements for farming/ranching/mining in this region. This situation was recognized all the way back to the 1880's, when the first water development rights were awarded and organized in Wyoming.
2) Wyoming's water laws are far, far different than anything you've experienced in other states. They are extremely convuluted, and complicated by the fact that the laws were based upon accepted normal practices (flood irrigation) in an era of much more water availability, less water demand/use, and not much historical engineering water data to establish how much water was functionally available to put to beneficial use. For the most part, Wyoming water rights are based upon water flow rates, and not total water allowed (ie, a right might be for "10 CFS" flow without any regard to how much total water in acre feet may be obtained through a year's time) without regard to functional water availability. The assumption was that the water would be put to "beneficial use" only. We have municipalites/water districts that "own" water rights but have little or no functional water available from their sources during this drought we're in right now.
3)Water "right" is tied strictly to the land that it has been awarded to and cannot be sold or used separately from that land, or for any other use. An irrigation well has precisely defined land that it may irrigate, or a surface water right has a precise land area it can irrigate (if functional water is available). A farmer cannot take his "well" water and put it on any other piece of his property, nor can he take his flood water and put that water upon land that has only a well water right, or no right at all even if he has the water available at the time.
4) Further complicating this water development was that in the 1880's, folks could get water rights by two different means ... through the state engineer's office for surface and groundwater rights, or by "adjudication" award through the court system. Literally, a farmer could go to the court and ask for whatever amount of water he wanted to have (in terms of flow) ... some went in and figured they needed "x" amount of water to irrigate their land, some needed "y" amount for the same acreage and crops. All got what they asked for, as long as they "perfected" the right by installing a water delivery system that could accomodate the water they asked for. This makes for some irrigated lands being worth a lot more than others, as they have enough "excess" water right owned that the percentage that they receive is actually enough to be beneficial.
Confused enough? I tried to get my own book put together of all the water rights/seniority on my water sources, and couldn't do it with a lot of research at the statehouse and engineer's offices. That included looking at actual court documents in the binders from the 1880's. My state hydrologist (ditch rider) has a book he's put together for his reference, but will not allow me to look at or copy the relevant pages ... which are few, since I own the 3rd most senior water rights in the area. There's a couple of local attorneys specializing in these water matters, and they guard their "knowledge" very closely ... you can get their services, but at what a price. It's bad enough that the system is as complex as it is but then the folks with professional knowledge guard it very zealously ... to your detriment.
Here's the bottom line:
1) You may readily (for now, anyway, this is due to be changing soon) apply for and receive a "domestic use" well permit from the state engineer for up to a 25 GPM well flow for a residence on approx 40 acres of land. This is strictly domestic use inside the house, and allows up to 1 acre of watered landscaping, livestock watering, etc. You'll be well advised to install water conserving drip irrigation systems for your intended tree/shrub shelter belts and other big landscaping water consumers. Having a 25 GPM permit doesn't mean you'll get a 25 GPM flow, let alone "potable" water. And, just because a neighbor has a "good" well, doesn't mean you'll get one, too, in many areas of the state. Don't count on always having that water flow ... in the late summer months, you may be lucky to get all the water you want when you want it as the water table drops.
2) If you don't have "irrigation" water rights with the land you buy today, it's unlikely that you'll get any. Right now, if you apply for such a right, you'll be standing in line behind folks who've been waiting for many years. With the recent lawsuits against Wyoming to deliver water (that we don't have in this drought) to other states, the state engineer is not issuing new "irrigation" water right permits. Remember, you cannot "buy" water from the neighbor who has a permit right, nor can he sell you his right. He can only use or decline to use the water which is otherwise all owned by the state of Wyoming. A "right" is absolutely no asssurance that water can or will be delivered in any given time frame or year. Be prepared for the sticker shock that irrigation water rights (no assurance of water!) can cost you more than the price of the land.
3) Surface water going through your land does not confer upon you any right to use that water for any purpose whatsoever. You get the visual impact, and may benefit from a sub-surface moisture table that gives you a lush pasture area or shady trees. But you may not use the water in any other way. Historically, a couple of your horses drinking from that water may not be an issue, but don't even think about watering a herd of livestock from that stream or irrigation ditch going through your land if a downstream water user with a right needs that water for his livlihood.
4) Don't believe anything you hear from a real estate agent about water availability or water quality. Do you own research about a specific parcel of land, even to the extent of making your sale contract contingent upon finding adequate and potable water supply upon the parcel. Do your own water quality testing for everything from heavy metals to fertilizer concentrations; these are tests that go far beyond the standard water quality tests. A real estate agent will tell you the "water's good" if the well is pumping anything. That's simply not good enough for your health and safety; I know families with nitrate poisoning because they didn't know to test and bought a place with bad water ... from a family that was selling because they'd all been sick at the place and didn't know why all were in bad health.
GREAT wrap-up EH - In the Cody area esp if you are talking about the southfork - (heading towards Dubois from Cody but only goes about 50 miles out of town because of the wilderness that cuts across there). Anyway, your neighbor may have TOTALLY potable and delicious well water and the next property -maybe 200 yards away - there isn't a decent place to drill at all for decent water. Toooo much alkali in the ground. Now at our place 3-4 miles south of Wheatland we had the GREATEST water & my ex still does...Is really good & is not a prob really finding decent water down there, although having to go a LOT deeper than 20 years ago. (Ex just had to drill another 100' & ours was a deep well to begin with for the day). So my suggestion is that you have water/soil experts check your mineral content & the likelihood of potable water & enough OF it to take care of yourselves & your livestock. It will cost some $$ But if you are serious about a piece of land - is worth the extra $$ to make sure you are pretty well covered. Yes - we have a public "water works" in town where ppl pay to fill their tanks in the backs of their pick-ups & go fill the cisterns. Can get ostly - esp with the price of gas these days....and the prob we are having with water anymore. Just my 2-cents worth......
Wanted to comment on the cold. The "chill factor" does factor in to how the cold affects our bodies, livestock, trees/winterkill, etc. etc. However, in 1991 (and I dont give a rat's arse what any almanac says - even in Cody you can be less than 3 blks apart & have TOTALLY different weather), in 1991 from T'giving to the day before Christmas Eve it never got ABOVE -18 here. It never got above -35 for the first 2 or so wks, hitting -48 a couple of days. I will NEVER forget it because I had to travel clear to Cheyenne during that peroid of time to take my step-daughter home (turned right around & went back home same day - was afraid to turn my truck off). And there are a LOT of areas in Wyo that do not have "official NOAA weather watchers or stations - like oil fields out east of LaBarge, etc. etc. but Amoco knows the temp out there because of ther operations. They HAVE to know. And it isn't comfy if you are working outside...And down in Wheatland (not including the intense chill factor) it was not unusual to hit -30 to -40 a few days every year. Your nose freezes shut on the first breath. That was in the 1980's - not sure how is now but with the chill factors (when we'd be taking care of livestick or walkng to neighbors or whatever, it mattered - esp w/a pack of babies) it would be -70 to -90. Wicked dang cold.
I want to thank you all for responding to this question ( of water). This is a non-issue in Michigan, where I'm from, so this is all new to me. To be honest, it worries me a bit -- I will be sure to do thorough research.
LOL!!!! I moved out west from Ohio so understand the water thing. When I grew up hoses were used for playing in & washing the cars & houses, and getting a drink rather than track thru the house. But when I saw ppl actually WATERING LAWNS I was shocked!!!! OK...I was 13, but even so - what a culture shock!!! Water here is definitely an issue that needs deep consideration wherever you land.
When I started the thread we were planning to move relatively quickly. But as happens, life got in the way. Now I'm hoping for 1 or 2 yrs. Still set on the Buffalo area. Water issues are making me think twice about what I want versus what I need. Like parcel size, in town vs out of town, etc. From a strictly water perspective, I'd think buying an existing home would be better because the well is already there. You'd know the gpm and could have the water tested.
Stanman13, having all the lakes and rivers like we do in the Midwest really makes us take water for granted. We have a well so we don't even see a water bill. Have no idea what our average consumption is. Since looking into moving we've tried to change our lifestyle to be better at conserving water but I know we still have a long way to go. Too bad we couldn't send some of the rain we got this month out West! Of course with the rain comes the mosquitoes
This is a concern for me, too. I am a Michigander, lifelong, but am considering moving to Wyoming. Here in Michigan, we take water for granted. You are never more than a mile from surface water, and anywhere you go you can put in a good well. I understand that this is not the case in the west, but how bad is it? If I move somewhere on the outskirts of town (say, Casper), can I expect to be able to put in a good well?
As a guy who used to run four irrigation wells and a domestic well in Nevada (driest state in the nation, where Las Vegas political hacks like Harry Reid engineer ways to steal the rest of the state's water for Vegas use), here's what easterners better learn about water BEFORE they buy land in the West, anywhere in the west, where "the West" starts at about the 100th parallel:
Water is destiny. Access and right to water determines everything about a piece of land. No water, no destiny. Period, end of discussion.
Water rights are the province of state law, so you must become versed in the laws of the state where you're moving, in this case Wyoming.
Then you must become versed in the hydrology of the area in which you want to live. For example, east of the Big Horn Mountains, you can drill water wells and be in plenty of water at 200 to 400 feet. And while you might have plenty of water, neither you nor your animals are going to drink it, because it is some mighty foul smelling (and tasting) stuff. You might have to drill a well hundreds of feet deeper to get into potable water for domestic supply. This changes wildly as you move throughout the west - the fractured geology that makes the west such a treasure lode of minerals (everything from coal to gold and uranium) also makes attempts at broad regional descriptions of water a pretty haphazard thing.
Drilling water wells is an expensive proposition. It varies wildly according to how far a driller has to come to bring in a drill rig, the type of ground through which he has to drill, etc. With the cost of diesel fuel going to the moon, drilling costs are going to go sky high as well, because drilling rigs get to/from your site by slurping huge quantities of fuel, then they're running pretty well full bore while they're drilling. Then there's usually a couple of support trucks that come out with the drill rig, all burning fuel and time. Usually, there will be at least two guys on the drill crew for a domestic well.
So what sort of numbers are we talking about? In a pretty remote area of Nevada, it used to be (when diesel was still under $3/gal) that a domestic well, 8" bore, drilled, cased and developed would run about $16/foot. This was a steel casing. I don't know yet whether WY permits PVC domestic well casings or if they require steel.
Irrigation wells (24" diameter holes, cased down to 16") were about $110/foot, cased and developed. The casing was mild steel, with the slotted/perf'ed casing for the water-bearing regions being much higher in cost than the "blank" casing.
These rates assume reverse circulation rotary drill rigs. For a domestic well, I would highly recommend that you insist on a reverse-circ rig, because pumping the bentonite out of your well for a year just isn't a fun time.
That was in 2004/2005. I'd expect at least a 25% increase in those rates now, due to increases in fuel, steel, etc.
It is possible, in some geological regions, to drill a domestic water well cheaper than with a rotary - if you have the right formation, you can inquire about cable tool rigs. They're slower, they cannot punch through tough rock layers, but in the right situations, they can drill a well at much cheaper rates than a rotary.
More significantly, 99%+++ of the realtors selling land here don't know a damn thing about the water, and will tell you anything (lie, fib, mislead, or allow you to "misunderstand") .... or omit information ... to make a land sale (this is a major part of the lack of professionalism on the part of real estate sales people in this state ...
This cannot be emphasized enough. I am astonished at what agents do not know in Wyoming, or what they refuse to disclose or tell prospective buyers.
Then there are issues of material and actionable misrepresentation that I increasingly believe are in need of a class action lawsuit.
Example:
One of my pet peeves in real estate listings in Wyoming is on ranch/farm listings. They say "10,000 acre ranch!" and then you read a bit further and it says "8,000 acres BLM lease." OK, this isn't unheard of in any western state - that the majority of the ranch's grazing is on BLM lands.
But in Wyoming, they keep calling out the acres on the grazing leases. Ranchers don't care (literally do not care) about how many acres are in a grazing lease. They care about how much grass is available on those acres. In Nevada, we have ranches with 1,000 acres of deeded ground, and 100,000+ acres of BLM grazing lease ground. A cow has to cover a whole lot of ground to keep her belly filled.
Only in Wyoming do I see ranches listed as "10,000 acres!" and then in the fine print "8,000 BLM..."
Well, to a real rancher (not some Californian or eastern hedge fund manager, but someone who is going to run cow or sheep on the ranch), a BLM grazing lease is just that: a LEASE. It confers no property right whatsoever in the lease area. Further, a real rancher wants to know:
1. What are the turn-out and come-in dates on the lease?
2. How many head of what type of livestock?
3. What water resources are out on the lease area, and who owns them?
4. Will there be a transfer cut in AUM's on the lease? (A insidious BLM policy of cutting AUM ratings on leases when ranches transfer ownership).
With one exception, no ranch listing I've seen in the entire state of Wyoming (and I've read over a hundred ranch listings) in the last three years has detailed these facts on "ranch" listings. I'm talking about "real" ranches, not these 80-acre horse properties they euphemistically call a "ranch." I'm talking about places where you could run at least 200+ cows with calves.
In Nevada, Idaho, Utah, California, etc - I see ranches listed per how much they can produce - ie "XXX cows," or "XXX cows, YYY tons of hay," etc. Then they break out the acres deeded, the AUMs on grazing leases, acres of hay ground and tonnage on hay ground, and then the water issues and whether the ranch has any other operations. The fact that a Nevada ranch has 80,000 acres of BLM lease is seen as a downside - that's a huge area to cover when you want to gather cows in in September.
In Wyoming, it is always "Acres, views, wildlife." One ranch listing near Cody raved about how many wolves, bears and mountain lions you'd see on your "working ranch." Golly, are you supposed to put out mint jelly or A-1 steak sauce with your livestock on this "working ranch?"
Every real estate agent I've talked to in Wyoming on the subject of real ranches looks like a deer in the headlights of a Mack truck when I ask these questions. They're clearly used to selling ranch properties to people who have NO FREAKIN' CLUE what they're buying, and they think "Oh, that BLM acreage is sorta mine -- it is 'attached' to this ranch."
No, it isn't. At the bottom of every BLM grazing lease contract (regardless of state) there is a statement in bold letters to the effect that "this lease does not convey any property right or interest in a property right" on the leased area. It is for the grazing and only the grazing, and only during the proscribed times of year.
Then we get to water issues, and by this time, I'm so fed up with the misrepresentation and ignorance of Wyoming realtors that I have to get up and leave.
Back to water: you're absolutely right: most agents know nothing about water. Caveat Emptor in spades on this. When anyone is buying real estate in Wyoming, they'd better do their homework. Do not expect that the real estate agent is bound by law or ethics to disclose material information to you, the buyer, as they are in other states. As realtors in Wyoming like to say in the "fine print" on their purchase contracts: they're in the business of marketing property and only marketing property.
From a strictly water perspective, I'd think buying an existing home would be better because the well is already there. You'd know the gpm and could have the water tested.
OK - as far as an existing home being better because the well is already there & knowing the GPM. Not at all necessarily true. The GPM can change during irrigation times, esp in shallower wells which some places have put up with for decades. The pressure may drop to a heavy trickle during irrigation. We had a well outside Wheatland when we first moved here in 1980 - the pump was set at 80' in a 120' well - they reached water at 40'. My ex still has that place & had to re-drill a couple or 3 years ago - he had to go 240' & set the pump at 175 feet - that is almost 100' further than it was set 30 years ago. And it was a new well then, replacing the one that had been used on that property since the 1920's. Was part of the whole re-modeling project the owner we purchasd from completed. At any rate, since that well from the 1920's several irrigation wells in the region was draining the water table from that one of being of any use, so in 1979 was set at 80' in 120' as I said, and that lasted about 25 years until they had to go another 100'. So don't fool yourself into thinking the water table isn't going to change - and the drought we've been in has not helped that a bit. Water on your property is making or breaking it here.
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