North central-north west Wyoming questions (Gillette, Sheridan: 2013, home, employment)

[TheKezarWoodsman]

Hi wyomingites, i am looking at a possible future move (in next few years, so things will probally change), but am just tryingg to figure out a general area. I have already looked into montana and or idaho, but feel like i should give wyoming a try, so here are a few questions.

-i wish to go into the forestry industrustry, so am wondering what the industry for forestry/forest related services is like.
-as well, what other jobs are common in rural areas.
-is the cost of living/land insanley high like in montana, or even is it closer to idaho.
-more questions to come

[Wyoming_Medic]

I can't give too much insight as to cost of living in comparison to Montana or Idaho (I've never lived there), but compared to the rest of Wyoming, you are looking at some of the most expensive areas to live.

As for forest service, what do you want to do? What education do you have? I was a firefighter for years, and worked closely with many aspects of the forest folks. Quite frankly, it sounded awful. Low pay (as in, so low it was not livable) unless you are hyper certified in law enforcement and become a ranger, or are some high level biologist.

The problem is, once you are super educated, those jobs rarely open up. My cousin is a 10+ year Army vet with multiple combat deployments, a bachelor's degree in criminal justice, and a host of other great attributes. He has been applying for law enforcement jobs within either the BLM or Forest service for the past two years. He scores highly and is well liked, but there are NEVER any openings.

Look at USA jobs and just see the pay scale for most beginning jobs. $8-$9 an hour. You CANNOT live on that in NW Wyoming. Not by a long shot.

[TheKezarWoodsman]

Looking at maps of wyoming, route 25 and west, anywhere in that actually seems like a good area. And again, i am looking at a future career in forestry (still in school), and am as well looking for a rural conserverative area.

Anyone by chance know how big forestry in the private sector is? The private sector in other areas/states always seems to be bigger. Im expecting in most of WY it would be less, due to the fact it seems(not sure), that most of the state is more flat-rolling land, and not so heavily forested.

[Wyoming_Medic]

What do you mean by "private forestry"? Logging and paper mill stuff?

Since most of our stuff is pine (we have essentially no hardwoods to harvest), there is quite a bit of paper production around the area. If you are wanting that, look into the Black Hills around Custer South Dakota. A LOT lower elevation and better logging.

[Ltdumbear]

Both Salmon, Idaho and Hulett, Wyom have large lumber facilities with trucks carrying trees in on what seems like a daily basis; both are small, tightly-knit, conservative towns. Competition for jobs should'nt be too high but might be tricky getting to know the right people, being a newcomer to the area as there is a definite undercurrent of xenophobia which exists in this region given the recent types who blast in and out due to boom/bust cycles in fracking/energy-extraction industry.

Rest-assured, if you can talk the talk AND walk the walk, you'll find a place for yourself, though.

Good luck.

[TheKezarWoodsman]

yes, private forestry is lumbering/paper mills, its whats big up in Maine/NH, (nh has abit of public sector due to the whites, but maine doesnt have much public). A forestry degree can be used in park ramger/forest ranger/ wildland firefighting, all of which do open up some more areas though

[sunsprit]

Originally Posted by TheKezarWoodsman

yes, private forestry is lumbering/paper mills, its whats big up in Maine/NH, (nh has abit of public sector due to the whites, but maine doesnt have much public). A forestry degree can be used in park ramger/forest ranger/ wildland firefighting, all of which do open up some more areas though

there's virtually no "private forestry" presence in Wyoming due to approx 50% of the state is public lands. Most of the logging in the area is on federal land management programs. NFS has been issuing conservation management logging permits to help harvest/mitigate the pine beetle kill stands, but they require that the permit holder remove small (dead or infected) trees along with the larger trees that may be profitable to harvest and process. The rate at which the permits have been issued is far below the operating capacity of the lumber mills in the area. To the best of my knowledge, there's no pulpwood production in this area ... the by-products of the lumber mills here go to biomass fuel power plants or pellet fuel purposes. When I fly over a lot of miles of beetle kill areas, it's apparent that the effort to clear and reclaim these forested areas lags far behind the economic recovery rate of the standing timber; ie, the dead trees are viable for harvest and use for only so many years after the tree dies. Otherwise, the wood quality deteriorates and after awhile, isn't good for anything except tinder and fuel for another forest fire.

with the career path of the forest service, the folks I've known there with decent jobs all had advanced degrees in their fields. One fellow max'ed out with his MS in Forestry and had to bet his PhD before being considered for advancement from his Fort Collins, CO, based job. To do so, he had to quit his USFS job, go to CSU full time at his own expense and then get re-hired into the USFS. Fortunately, their employment rules treated his time apart from the service as a sabbatical because he didn't take any other employment in the break.

But be aware that advancement in this biz requires changing stations from time to time as "steps up" and you'll not be able to stay in one (desirable for your purposes) location. My friend had to take a (minimum) 2-year assignment in Washington DC before being eligible to make a parallel move at the pay grade into his old boss's position in Fort Collins. That job opening was only going to come up when his old boss retired with over 30 years in the USFS. It just happened to work out that the boss reached that retirement milestone at that job ... the retirement could have been put off for awhile and he'd have been transferred somewhere else in the chain. From what I heard, the boss had had enough and didn't want to leave Fort Collins for another tour in DC.

Firefighting jobs are also very competitive for hiring. Seems a popular path for a lot of outdoorsy adventure folk with a passion for some intense, dangerous, hard physical work. But it's seasonal work for most of the workers, not a career path for most hires.

Don't forget that the federal employee jobs do have a point system for hiring ... and many folks you are competing against for a job will have those bonus points to add to their test scores. If you don't have those preferential points, you're likely at a huge disadvantage in getting hired on to begin with for a full-time job.

[TheKezarWoodsman]

How expensive would southwest wyoming or north central wyoming be?

[CptnRn]

Originally Posted by TheKezarWoodsman

How expensive would southwest wyoming or north central wyoming be?

You should familiarize yourself with the City-Data data pages. https://www.city-data.com/ They have one or several for every community. You can look up extensive data there on each community including things like major employers, cost of living, incomes, property costs, etc, etc, etc.

[WyoNewk]

Absolutely look over the link that CptnRn posted. It'll show you that the median home price in Sheridan is about $199K and median household income is about $46K, whereas in Gillette the median home price is $210K and median household income is $77K (all 2013 figures). So it's easier for most families to live in and buy a decent home in Gillette than in Sheridan, assuming they work locally.

The cost of living in most of Wyoming is fairly close to the national average, but that's averaging in the most expensive cities (NYO, San Francisco, etc.) with rural towns in Kansas and Missouri, as examples.