A friends work problem

[lovetheduns]

Originally Posted by Letsdance

Why don't they do training or continuing education on the employee? I'm confused by the extremism. Lets just harass and shun the person until they leave sounds a little crazy to me.

In the case of the employee I know who is currently being "managed out" he has been given MANY efforts in terms of coaching and assistance.

There comes a point in your professional career that you max out on your capability. Some folks have an astounding ability to pick up new skills, learn new technologies, change, and continuously evolve. I work with a man in his fifties right now who is an incredible analyst/director (his current level). He is extremely well respected and people have the utmost confidence that even if he is not familiar with something he will be quickly able to pick it up. I dare say he could not continue to learn more and more and more and reinvent himself-- he is extremely intelligent and I hope to one day be like him.

The other guy on the other hand is pretty hopeless. He is by no means able to pick up the same type of knowledge nor be able to apply the things he knows to a different work paradigm. Honestly now, he no longer fits. A company, a team, a manager should not have to "retrain" someone to do the job that they are supposed to be proficient.

The best way I can explain it is if you have a miserable doctor who can not do his job proficiently. Do you keep training him over and over to be a doctor? Why would you when you have people with less years of experience but who far outperform? Unfortunately, employment and employers are not charities. It is not their responsibility to train you on the basics of your job after you have been trying to do those basics for years.

The other guy above who I was talking about (the director), he was managed into a director level individual contributor role-- you know why? Because he sucked as a manager. He would be one of the first to tell you that as well. He said after several years of trying it and failing, he realized management of people was not his gift. So they managed him out into roles that were more fitting. He is still gainfully employed and extremely valued (as I said I admire him and try to learn everything I can from him) so it wasn't like the "managed out" for his very poor managerial skills got him into a crap job.

As for shunning or harassing-- none of the employees I have known who this has happened to have been harassed or shunned. They were demoted and did in some cases have pretty exacting performance plans, but they were not harassed. Of course I am sure in the case of the current guy, I am sure he does feel very shunned and harassed because of the demotion and the performance plan or when people provide feedback to his work on the projects as being lackluster.

[Letsdance]

Well it depends on the tone of voice and the body language when they are giving the criticism and feedback. The point is are there any improvements being made or is the man already fired and now people are just toying with him? It takes time for people to develop.

Originally Posted by lovetheduns

As for shunning or harassing-- none of the employees I have known who this has happened to have been harassed or shunned. They were demoted and did in some cases have pretty exacting performance plans, but they were not harassed. Of course I am sure in the case of the current guy, I am sure he does feel very shunned and harassed because of the demotion and the performance plan or when people provide feedback to his work on the projects as being lackluster.

[lovetheduns]

Originally Posted by Letsdance

Well it depends on the tone of voice and the body language when they are giving the criticism and feedback. The point is are there any improvements being made or is the man already fired and now people are just toying with him? It takes time for people to develop.

Letsdance-- I don't disagree when someone is new to the job, new to their career-- but really there comes a point when you are no longer a newbie or novice.

Quite frankly I would have let go the person in question a couple years ago at the minimum-- I think the company has been MORE than tolerant and patient. The costs that he has created in rework, service recoveries, etc are more than reason enough.

Mistakes are okay to make-- we all make them. I have made several costly ones before (but they were all different and incredible opportunities to learn) But if you keep making the same mistake over and over and over and over and over again-- then there is an obvious incompetence that is no longer the responsibility of the employer or manager to try and help the employee through it...

[Letsdance]

I see your point. No arguments. I'm sorry to hear about any troubles. Take care.

Originally Posted by lovetheduns

Letsdance-- I don't disagree when someone is new to the job, new to their career-- but really there comes a point when you are no longer a newbie or novice.

Quite frankly I would have let go the person in question a couple years ago at the minimum-- I think the company has been MORE than tolerant and patient. The costs that he has created in rework, service recoveries, etc are more than reason enough.

Mistakes are okay to make-- we all make them. I have made several costly ones before (but they were all different and incredible opportunities to learn) But if you keep making the same mistake over and over and over and over and over again-- then there is an obvious incompetence that is no longer the responsibility of the employer or manager to try and help the employee through it...

[legalstudent]

Interesting education here. Would it not be considered constructive discharge for a man who worked 13 plus years for a company, a new management took over, the person who was now his boss had made sexual inuendos towards him, and then because he did not take her up on her inuendos, all of a sudden loses a ton of income and all his benefits canceled? Forcing him to quit by making the working conditions unbearable as well as a huge demotion? Making him work 7 days a week, He increases his sales production but experiences an incredible decrease in his take home pay..forcing him to quit the job.. and is thus awarded unemployment? Is this still something to consider? a constructive discharge? It sounds like it.. just wanted to ask your opinion.

[malamute]

I know some people where I work who should be managed out and no matter how much longer they stay in their jobs, they'll be incompetent as supervisors.

Some people manage to get into a position and believe they should stay in it forever, that they're entitled when really they aren't and sometimes fresh blood, new ideas are needed.

Also, it's best not to take it personally - sometimes you fit and sometimes you don't and it's in your own best interests to move on when you don't fit - even if you once did. Times are changing. It's very demoralizing to hang on and hang on when you can see it's not going your way any more.

So for whatever reason, your friend should start looking for another job.