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Hi all, I have a few questions regarding the unfortunate termination of my job just recently and I'm wondering if any of you can answer them for me.
Was terminated due to being intoxicated on the job. I worked alone in different buildings and my supervisor came to check in on me and saw that I was out of whack. He forced me to punch out and then said he saw me drink liquor from a small bottle (half pint).
Well I am in a union and had a meeting with them to fight the termination as they did not drug test me or give me a breathalizer. It was 9pm at night so they might not have been able to drug test me.
To make this entire experience even more fun, I decided to get wasted and the next day in the morning got a DWI and got thrown in jail for 3 days and couldn't contact my employer in jail.
They said they terminated me due to the bottle I had. My union rep said it now goes to "arbitration".
The arbitration part has me confused.
If I apply for a new job, do I have to put "terminated" on the application? Am I officially terminated at this time or do I have to wait for the arbiter to finalize/officialize the termination? Do I lose my health coverage at the end of this month like I was informed or will it be lost after the arbitration?
I realize some (or all) of these questions would be better addressed by my rep, but I am having a hard time communicating with her as my language isn't her first language (also I don't think she has been very helpful in this whole process anyways).
I was informed the arbitration could take months.
Any responses would be appreciated.
Last edited by Rancho Relaxo; 05-28-2023 at 08:10 AM..
I’m sure there are work requirements to not be drinking on the job. The union might be able to help, especially if you weren’t actually drinking, but then getting the DUI and being in jail is going to be a problem itself. Even if you weren’t drinking, the DUI is going to make the employer think you probably were. You don’t have a good case here.
As far as the rest of the stuff, talk to the union. You generally wouldn’t “have” to put what happened on your next job application, but you’ll likely have some explaining to do if there is a big gap.
I’m sure there are work requirements to not be drinking on the job. The union might be able to help, especially if you weren’t actually drinking, but then getting the DUI and being in jail is going to be a problem itself. Even if you weren’t drinking, the DUI is going to make the employer think you probably were. You don’t have a good case here.
As far as the rest of the stuff, talk to the union. You generally wouldn’t “have” to put what happened on your next job application, but you’ll likely have some explaining to do if there is a big gap.
I work(ed) alone half my nights. He says he saw me drink out of a half pint of Fireball. I was in almost a blackout state so I don't remember how it all went down to the best of my ability. I was also taking medication (legally prescribed), and since they didn't breathalize me - follow protocol - I felt like, even though I was completely out of line, they didn't follow protocol so I might have dodged a bullet because that was a mistake they shouldn't have made.
Moreover, I can't recall when I took the drink out of that bottle in front of him. It might have been after I punched out and was waiting for the Uber ride home.
I know, I'm an idiot and an alcoholic but I slipped in the worst way this time.
Can't answer to the arbitration questions, but I think your time and energy would be better spent getting into a recovery program instead of fighting a job termination that looks like they may have good basis for (if you had a bottle on the premises, most places might consider that grounds for termination alone.)
Can't answer to the arbitration questions, but I think your time and energy would be better spent getting into a recovery program instead of fighting a job termination that looks like they may have good basis for (if you had a bottle on the premises, most places might consider that grounds for termination alone.)
I'm in the process of getting into treatment. Court ordered due to the DWI.
Just really would like someone who knows about arbitration and how that plays into some of these other factors.
In a case like this, union arbitration request are primarily to cover all bases:
1. To see if there's anyway to save your job. There could be mitigation circumstance that might help save your job.
2. To make sure all steps for termination were followed. Union contracts have specific steps the employer has agreed to follow before and when terminating an employee. The union is making sure those steps were followed.
3. To enable the union to do what they need to do to save your job BUT, if your termination was a proper and righteous termination, they can face the membership and honestly say they tried but you were properly fired.
The arbitration may overturn the termination (the termination is reversed and things go back to the second before being fired) but most likely the way the contract is written, you were fired when they terminated you.
You can not collect unemployment benefits if fired for cause. That doesn't mean you can't mount a technical defense and get benefits, but a "for cause misconduct termination" is a denial of benefits.
I work(ed) alone half my nights. He says he saw me drink out of a half pint of Fireball. I was in almost a blackout state so I don't remember how it all went down to the best of my ability. I was also taking medication (legally prescribed), and since they didn't breathalize me - follow protocol - I felt like, even though I was completely out of line, they didn't follow protocol so I might have dodged a bullet because that was a mistake they shouldn't have made.
Moreover, I can't recall when I took the drink out of that bottle in front of him. It might have been after I punched out and was waiting for the Uber ride home.
I know, I'm an idiot and an alcoholic but I slipped in the worst way this time.
It's basically your word against theirs. You've admitted to being blacked out. It had to be obvious you were drunk or drugged all to hell. While the breathalyzer might be "protocol," people showing up obviously wasted has to be a no-no. If there was surveillance camera footage of you slurring, pitching around, etc., you're even more screwed. My guess is that an open container, even if you've clocked out, while still on premises, is itself going to be a red flag. You're lucky they didn't call the law where you'd get a public intoxication on top of the firing.
I've had a DUI myself, and struggle with drinking. I've backed off probably 75% since my DUI, but I'm not drunk during work hours either. If you're obviously drunk on the job, you have a problem, and you need to put your focus on navigating the DUI/legal process first, getting help second, and finding another job third. If you end up jobless, you might as well go ahead and do your jail time, DUI school, victim impact panel, interlock install, DMV hassles, etc., before trying to work full-time again.
If you can't make it through a workday without being drunk or getting drunk on the job, you're not going to be able to work anywhere.
In a case like this, union arbitration request are primarily to cover all bases:
1. To see if there's anyway to save your job. There could be mitigation circumstance that might help save your job.
2. To make sure all steps for termination were followed. Union contracts have specific steps the employer has agreed to follow before and when terminating an employee. The union is making sure those steps were followed.
3. To enable the union to do what they need to do to save your job BUT, if your termination was a proper and righteous termination, they can face the membership and honestly say they tried but you were properly fired.
The arbitration may overturn the termination (the termination is reversed and things go back to the second before being fired) but most likely the way the contract is written, you were fired when they terminated you.
You can not collect unemployment benefits if fired for cause. That doesn't mean you can't mount a technical defense and get benefits, but a "for cause misconduct termination" is a denial of benefits.
So basically I am terminated at this time and can't say that I'm not on applications I fill out at this point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation
It's basically your word against theirs. You've admitted to being blacked out. It had to be obvious you were drunk or drugged all to hell. While the breathalyzer might be "protocol," people showing up obviously wasted has to be a no-no. If there was surveillance camera footage of you slurring, pitching around, etc., you're even more screwed. My guess is that an open container, even if you've clocked out, while still on premises, is itself going to be a red flag. You're lucky they didn't call the law where you'd get a public intoxication on top of the firing.
I've had a DUI myself, and struggle with drinking. I've backed off probably 75% since my DUI, but I'm not drunk during work hours either. If you're obviously drunk on the job, you have a problem, and you need to put your focus on navigating the DUI/legal process first, getting help second, and finding another job third. If you end up jobless, you might as well go ahead and do your jail time, DUI school, victim impact panel, interlock install, DMV hassles, etc., before trying to work full-time again.
If you can't make it through a workday without being drunk or getting drunk on the job, you're not going to be able to work anywhere.
This isn't my first rodeo. The thing that really gets to me is not once at this job in the last 7 years have I ever done anything - I've never been written up, never missed a day, never was even late once.
I guess this kind of proves to my nihilistic mind that there really aren't second chances. And I know I brought this on myself and the rules are the rules. But I bet you everything I own that had their senior VP came in drunk to work they'd give him a second chance. I guess I'm just going to go live in my car and say to hell with all this life stuff.
So basically I am terminated at this time and can't say that I'm not on applications I fill out at this point?
Truthfully, that's a question you need to be asking your Union Rep. The contract will spell out the termination process so when and if you are terminated is a bit more complicated than with non-union employment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancho Relaxo
This isn't my first rodeo. The thing that really gets to me is not once at this job in the last 7 years have I ever done anything - I've never been written up, never missed a day, never was even late once.
If there are mitigating circumstances or some other system in place to take past performance into consideration, it could be a favorable factor. But many companies have lines in the sand where certain offenses may not have such protections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rancho Relaxo
But I bet you everything I own that had their senior VP came in drunk to work they'd give him a second chance. I guess I'm just going to go live in my car and say to hell with all this life stuff.
They very well may, but you're not a senior VP so you shouldn't expect equal treatment. Life and work is not fair and regardless of all the talk of employee rights and equality; Workers are just workers.
ETA: and just to add, I would still apply for unemployment benefits but only say you were terminated, nothing else. That's where you play the technicality game.
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