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Old 05-16-2018, 12:10 AM
 
522 posts, read 347,739 times
Reputation: 274

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
Yes, I was in IT.

Building Alliances - not possible at the software developer level where I was or at the lower management level for a few rungs above me. We were basically marionettes controlled by upper management. You could develop friendships but your friends could not really help you and you could not help your friends. Upper management controlled us with an iron fist. The good news is that there was no favoritism and everyone was on a level playing field. But you had to follow orders without question and kowtow to everyone above you. Failure to do so risked dimissal. Management wanted to present a unified front to us. All managers acted the same and there were no deviations in the way they resolved problems or acted. They were like clones of one another. That is what management wanted.

Building New Skills vs. Becoming an Expert - It varied. Some people pursued one option, others the other. There was no clear preference that I could discern. There was no real fear of losing one's job by obsolescence. I was at my last company for 28 years and we had DEC VAC COBOL at first, but then went to mostly proprietary software. So if you tried to go to another company you were already obsolete.

Justifying Business Value for Your Project - No power over that. We were assigned projects and had to do them. Not much room for independent thinking outside of optimizing code, or designing a better program by using efficient techniques or procedures. If you had a project assigned to you, then it had value.

Staying Visible - Very important. But the only way to excel was to put in overtime, and lots of it. Doing quality work or creating the shiny object had no value to it unless it was accompanied by an exorbitant amount of overtime hours. Lots of "suffering" had to be involved in missed sleep, working every weekend, missing time with family. The perception or work ethic of putting in overtime hours was sancrosact. Everything revolved around overtime work. It was everything and the only thing. I'm sure that management's attitude was when we are all on our deathbeds, we will wish that we had spent more time working rather than with our families or doing other "mindless" pursuits.

Trying to get Inside Knowledge - Yes, there was a lot of gossip always going around about that. I could write a book about it.

Making Sure You Look Good - Absolutely important. Again, the only way to look good was to put in copious amounts of overtime hours, and then more on top of that. I cannot overemphasise how important overtime is valued by this company. Above competence, above excellence, above producing quality, top notch work. Overtime, overtime, and more overtime.
Don't people get into IT to avoid this crap?
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:13 AM
 
522 posts, read 347,739 times
Reputation: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by BusinessManIT View Post
There was no normal schedule for anyone. This was the IT world. You work until the work gets done. You have on call work after hours and on the weekends. If something breaks you have to fix it and just because it gets late in the evening and you want to go home you can't. If something breaks in the middle of the night you can't just wait until morning to fix it. You have to work on it immediately. Otherwise the clients will eat you alive, and so will management. You have aggressive deadlines deliberately set so that you have to work at night and on the weekends to get your projects done on time.
It's only like this because techies put up with it, get themselves hocked up in debt, and so they let their employers take advantage of them.

Sounds like the company is full of worthless mid management types who have nothing else to do but harass hard working techies so they can justify their own positions.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:25 AM
 
5,076 posts, read 2,761,733 times
Reputation: 6961
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm4256 View Post
Don't people get into IT to avoid this crap?
No, it's like this in the IT world as well. Plus it is getting worse. Being a software developer used to be a prestigious occupation. But now with outsourcing and meaner managements it has degraded a lot.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:38 AM
 
5,076 posts, read 2,761,733 times
Reputation: 6961
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgm4256 View Post
It's only like this because techies put up with it, get themselves hocked up in debt, and so they let their employers take advantage of them.

Sounds like the company is full of worthless mid management types who have nothing else to do but harass hard working techies so they can justify their own positions.
Yes, many of my colleagues endured what I did for 28 years. It was a rather bleak lifestyle that we had to lead. But the pay was real good. That is the reason I and so many others stayed. Some of my colleagues left, but most of them jumped from one frying pan into another.

Now this company does not pay well. It got rid of its software developers and replaced them with new ones that earn about a third of what the original ones were. Such is the corporate world.

I did not get myself into debt though. I had a merit scholarship that helped pay for my first Bachelor's degree and I had a job that took care of the rest. My other three degrees were paid by my last IT employer. That was another one of the few benefits working for that slavedriver company.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Richmond VA
6,887 posts, read 7,932,350 times
Reputation: 18230
Quote:
Originally Posted by MLSFan View Post
you working in hollywood? because no one else does that
Clearly you never worked in a public school.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:25 PM
 
220 posts, read 146,351 times
Reputation: 562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron61 View Post
My last employer told me they expected between 500 and 750 hours of OT a year. Nice.
I'm years removed from the job market, but in the '60s through the '90s, my active years, it never occurred to me that one could be truly successful in one's field working 40 hours a week. My hours were ridiculous, but being self-employed I had no one to complain to had I wanted to complain.

Have work habits changed that much? Do folks expect to do well on 2000 hour work years?
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Proxima Centauri
5,854 posts, read 3,264,512 times
Reputation: 6163
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFSGood View Post
I'm years removed from the job market, but in the '60s through the '90s, my active years, it never occurred to me that one could be truly successful in one's field working 40 hours a week. My hours were ridiculous, but being self-employed I had no one to complain to had I wanted to complain.

Have work habits changed that much? Do folks expect to do well on 2000 hour work years?
You got your career in just in time to have loyalty work both ways. You worked hard and the company rewarded you with raises, a nice pension, and promotions. That's all changed. Now you are lucky if you get twenty years in with one employer. Pensions have become 401K plans and medical coverage for what Medicare coverage doesn't cover is rare.

Where's the two way loyalty now when they can hire five people in Asia at your former salary?

I think that there is a connection with all of the sweat shop hours and the divorce rate.

Last edited by Tonyafd; 05-16-2018 at 02:55 PM..
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Old 05-16-2018, 02:47 PM
 
5,076 posts, read 2,761,733 times
Reputation: 6961
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonyafd View Post
You got your career in just in time to have loyalty work both ways. You worked hard and the company rewarded you with raises, a nice pension, and promotions. That's all changed. Now you are lucky if you get twenty years in with one employer. Pensions have become 401K plans and medical coverage for what Medicare coverage doesn't cover is rare.

Where's the two way loyalty now when they can hire five people in Asia at your former salary?
Completely agree.
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Old 05-16-2018, 05:01 PM
 
5,985 posts, read 2,932,760 times
Reputation: 9026
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFSGood View Post
I'm years removed from the job market, but in the '60s through the '90s, my active years, it never occurred to me that one could be truly successful in one's field working 40 hours a week. My hours were ridiculous, but being self-employed I had no one to complain to had I wanted to complain.

Have work habits changed that much? Do folks expect to do well on 2000 hour work years?
Average hours worked has been under 2000 hour work years since the early 1950s in the US. Average hours worked per week has gone down from 38 hours/week in 1950 to 34 hours/week today.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:14 AM
 
8 posts, read 9,353 times
Reputation: 20
Wow, no wonder employees rate a company so poorly on life/family. Just entering in the workforce pool of the semi-unemployed I have done a lot of reading. Been out for 9 1/2 years, wasn't blind sided saw writing on the wall I would be laid off; but sweet Jesus... Greed all around, greed from Corporate America to over-work under pay like slave labor! Supervisors talk down and are nasty, shows no respect! Employees taking credit for your work, big time brown nosing and fake working, skating and no pride and think they are owed! What happen America?
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