Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You're absolutely right, I didn't get it. But it was a "didn't get it" out of ignorance on my part. All it took was one. I came nowhere close to doing the behavior of the salesperson you describe.
I didn't say you did. But you could have given too much attention to one person, and they were offended.
You're calling it ignorance, yet admit that you've attended training in the past. That's not ignorance, that's willful ignorance.
Yes, we take it yearly as well. This is not about being "politically correct" but about not harassing people in the workplace or creating a hostile work environment. We just had another thread on here where a manager apparently thought strip club outings with his male coworkers were a-ok and plenty on this board agreed it was no problem even though the females subordinates felt uncomfortable and excluded. Clearly a lot of people are still in workplaces where this training is not given and "men should be men" even if it makes women feel uncomfortable in the workplace.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RbccL
Since you mentioned it twice, I'm thinking you may have an idea that you look at women too long? Maybe inadvertently at their body parts? Maybe as they're walking away, just at their butt...
Also all the the things you were wondering if you did or got caught doing, are inappropriate. You can't tell dirty jokes at work in mixed company and assume no one will get offended, this would have all been gone ever in your mandatory sexual harassment training that certain states enforce on employers.
Normally the person offended complains, the offender gets a warning, they stop-- or do it again and get fired. There has to be a paper trail and documentation so as to have a reason not to pay UI. I've never heard of one being let go for harassment with no warning, no wonder you were surprised...
...but then again you've been employed for decades and didn't know comments, leering, unwanted touch, were all unacceptable in the workplace? That's a firing waiting to happen, and also hard to believe.
Regarding the above posts, I do have a question. If you had a man or a few men working for an otherwise female manager and her idea was to say all go to the spa or such for the employees making the men feel excluded would you say the female manager is in the wrong?
And what if you have women saying dirty or crass/crude jokes, would you be okay with a man tattling on them and getting them in trouble?
You're absolutely right, I didn't get it. But it was a "didn't get it" out of ignorance on my part. All it took was one. I came nowhere close to doing the behavior of the salesperson you describe.
While I never said you came close to that behavior, but you did say in your first post "I tend to talk to folks in offices to relationship build so I can easily get what I need from them for the documents I create." Maybe one of those folks felt you spent too much time building a "relationship". You call this a cautionary tale, so I'm giving you a word of caution: less time chatting with the ladies to make your job easier, and little more time doing your work.
Regarding the above posts, I do have a question. If you had a man or a few men working for an otherwise female manager and her idea was to say all go to the spa or such for the employees making the men feel excluded would you say the female manager is in the wrong?
And what if you have women saying dirty or crass/crude jokes, would you be okay with a man tattling on them and getting them in trouble?
Yes. I'm looking at a hostile work environment as being gender neutral. Historically it's been the female being harassed or made uncomfortable. I'm not looking for fairness to be twisted around bc I'm vindictive and think it's time for women to be the asses in the workplace....
There isn't a separate employee handbook for each sex, there aren't 2 segregated HR trainings. The point of wanting to go to work and not be distracted or irritated by those who can't act appropriately has nothing to do giving females a free pass...
Sounds like a question from someone who doesn't get it.
While I never said you came close to that behavior, but you did say in your first post "I tend to talk to folks in offices to relationship build so I can easily get what I need from them for the documents I create." Maybe one of those folks felt you spent too much time building a "relationship". You call this a cautionary tale, so I'm giving you a word of caution: less time chatting with the ladies to make your job easier, and little more time doing your work.
That would really irritate most of the men I work with, to be honest. A lot of us would much rather not "relationship build" much less do it "so he can easily get" stuff. People do that with me when I have a full plate of work, and it is super obvious that they think they can jump to the front of the queue by sucking up. I do what I can to onboard new people, but loafing in my office is not going to make me more inclined to work with them.
"I'm a married man with three children who's been in the workforce for 34 years. I'm 57. I've dealt with my share of workplace **** but this sexual harassment accusation tops the cake.
I post this as a cautionary tale. I am chatty, bordering on flirty with women who I get to know and think I can read real well. That ends here for me. Watch who you talk to or what you say in an office setting. And by all means, don't look at someone of the opposite sex for more than a split second."
When I worked in an office environment for 15 years, I was very careful about who I talked to and what I talked about. It's a good rule to remain professional at all times and not let chit chat drift into topics that are related to politics, religion and/or sex. There is a good chance you are going to upset someone.
I did get hurt earlier on in my career when people would say I wasn't talking enough or I kept to myself too much, but I didn't lose my job as a result of this. I think supervisors looked down on me for this but I only got a few complaints about this.
It's such a difficult balancing act. There are just so many things that can be misconstrued as sexual harassment, regardless of whether the intention was there or not.
Regarding the above posts, I do have a question. If you had a man or a few men working for an otherwise female manager and her idea was to say all go to the spa or such for the employees making the men feel excluded would you say the female manager is in the wrong?
And what if you have women saying dirty or crass/crude jokes, would you be okay with a man tattling on them and getting them in trouble?
This isn't always a gender issue. The above behavior is unprofessional and can create a hostile working environment. Whether or not complaints are filed with HR really depends on who is in that working environment.
However, I also learned that anyone can accuse you of harassment if they feel the least bit "uncomfortable" with you or your actions. I also spoke to a lawyer, who told me I have no legal leg to stand on. At-will employment means a employer can boot your ass for any reason they damn well feel like.
Your lawyer's wrong. You can sue the person who made the complaint. You can also sue the employer for sexual discrimination. By firing men without any sort of due process based on a complaint by a woman, the employer entirely arbitrarily treats women better than men. Such a situation also creates a hostile environment for men.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
