Screwed Over By Foreign Workers & Corporations The Dream Is Over (2015, profit)

[Nickchick]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

Get over yourself. You're just a socialist.

If someone is qualified and willing to work for the right price, he or she will be snapped up.

If someone is entitled and whiny and lazy, he or she doesn't deserve to be hired. That's all there is to it.

You may believe that you're God's gift to the world, but the reality is that there are smarter and harder working people out there with a lower price tag. Why shouldn't your employer give your job to a better and cheaper worker? It's simple economics.

What if I'm not technically qualified but willing to work at a job I'm comfortable at for any price so I'm not entitled and whiny and lazy? Why shouldn't an employer that I apply for just give me a chance? They can hire me for less than minimum wage if they want. As long as it's nothing outrageous like one dollar an hour....

I still don't buy that it has to do with American vs foreign because as I say I get screwed over by the same country too but I mention this because I had heard that Verizon was not hiring right now because of the workers strike so if that's true that's really messed up. I had had an interview with them so if I didn't get a call back because I am American why didn't they just try me out and see how I do? I mean do I look like the average American? I'm confident that I don't..I always for example get told I look younger.

[le roi]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

But the reality is, they don't get the productivity out of native born Americans.

Just my 2 cents.

What a bunch of bull.

The United States is #3 in the world in GDP per hour worked.

India, where the vast majority of the 'temporary work visa' workers are coming from is #61.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...er_hour_worked

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

People born since the War have no clue what it's like to go without. They have no deferred gratification but want everything their way, instantly. I'm talking my generation and younger -- we're a bunch of spoiled princes and princesses.

American workers are far more productive than their grandparents' generation.

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

That's where the immigrants come in. They're not spoiled; where they come from, in most cases it's just like the Great Depression, with 25% unemployment and no guarantee of a meal from day to day.

India's unemployment rate is 3.6%

[blisterpeanuts]

Originally Posted by le roi

What a bunch of bull.

The United States is #3 in the world in GDP per hour worked.

India, where the vast majority of the 'temporary work visa' workers are coming from is #61.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...er_hour_worked



American workers are far more productive than their grandparents' generation.

India's unemployment rate is 3.6%

Lying with statistics. The 3.6% number (more like 5% according to most sources) is out of a population of 116 million actively seeking employment. The real unemployment numbers in India are probably closer to 50% if you actually count the other 1 billion people many of whom are beggars, or doing low level farm work, or just hanging out with their families and doing the odd job to get by.

American workers productivity is simply a mathematical number based on national output divided by population. Since we use far more mechanization and software today, each worker does produce more than did our grandparents and great-grandparents.

But we certainly don't work as hard as they did, day by day, and that's the point. Actually if we did have the work ethic of the Depression generation, probably the nation's productivity would be much higher, and outsourcing would be less of an issue. The search for functional, literate, hard working people takes employers overseas because such people are harder and harder to find domestically.

[Serious Conversation]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

That's one example of bad management. I can give 4-5 examples of good management: H1B workers working smoothly with natives and no particular problems.

Of course it was bad management, but that's not the overall problem. The problem is the visa workers were largely hired because it's much, much harder for them to leave the employer than it is for citizens.

One poor H-1B in my office had two large, prestigious clients going live on the same weekend, which had never been done before throughout the organization. She was only there for a couple months when all this happened, and wasn't even fully up to speed. She was basically railroaded by it and some days was a complete nervous wreck, and she's a pretty even-keeled person as it is. The senior systems analyst (citizen) in my office basically had enough of the circumstances there, threatened to leave, and got promoted to senior, as well as the pay bump. I also noticed as the people who had been there awhile got green cards, they began to leave as well. The visa holders are basically holding their noses and sucking it up to get a green card, while citizens go through there like a revolving door.

[davenj08]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

Regarding the bringing in of foreign technical workers such as MSFT and other firms hire on an H1B visa, that's a complex topic and can't be solved through partisan jibes, butt-talk, and sloganeering sound bites. The fact is, there are some very bright, very hard working people from South Asia who have come over here and really kicked butt when it comes to doing a fantastic job, not complaining or acting entitled over every little perk and perceived slight. These people are keeping the tech companies from moving overseas completely.

If you think H1B should be ended, well vote for politicians who advocate that. But the result will be, MSFT, Google, Apple, etc., will open more overseas software operations and then software engineering will become another outsourced industry. It'll be like color TVs and cars. It all went to Asia.

That is an argument very few folks on this forum would understand. The day H1B or E1/E2 category visa are abolished, a bulk of tech jobs will be categorically offshored from this country.

Originally Posted by guesthouston

Either you have not worked with so called 'high skilled' h1b workers or you are one of them. The companies who bring foreign worker are not bringing them because they are high skilled but because they are cheap.

Let me give you a specific case. Ever heard of company called Infosys ? It employs nearly 200,000 people and it's an Indian outsourcing major. Nearly 70% company's revenue comes from US. It has been recently fined by government for abusing US guest worker visas.

https://www.infosys.com/investors/fi...oyee-data.aspx
U.S. to Hit Infosys With Record Immigration Fine - WSJ

Do you know how many US Citizens it hires ? less than 2000. (not even 2%). The company which gets 75% of its revenue from this country, does not hire US Citizens. Most of people working in this company are on H1B.

There are number of examples like that.

Nearly 70% from US? Wrong! Infosys has ~62% revenue generated from North America, which does not only include USA. Their business model is primarily onshore/offshore. Why would they hire Americans in American market and supply them to American firms? Doesn't make sense. An American firm can do it without Infosys.

[Tac-Sea]

Originally Posted by gwarnecke

Dark days when the extreme left and right from both sides (Sanders & Trump) rail against immigration and/or free trade.

America's liberal immigration policies are a big reason that are economy hasn't been stagnant for the past 2+ decades like Japan and most of western Europe (which have more protectionist-oriented governments and policies).

Importing foreign labor that is cheaper drives down wages. Most of the economy, approx. 70% of it is driven by spending. So tell me again how driving down wages via H1B visas at a fraction of the pay of an American worker is good for the economy and how liberalism is so great. Let me guess, you're a low wage blue collar worker...Because the only people who benefit from liberalism are typically the exact opposite of successful, benefiting from taxing those who worked for it, to give to those who didn't so they can keep having kids and get more benefits for housing, utilities, health care, food, phones, etc.


The H1B visa program is being abused, to the point it is legalized corruption. Once again our government doesn't give a crap about us middle class folks, only big business and the bottom tier of society, which is where most of the liberals get their votes from.

[ATG5]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

Lying with statistics. The 3.6% number (more like 5% according to most sources) is out of a population of 116 million actively seeking employment. The real unemployment numbers in India are probably closer to 50% if you actually count the other 1 billion people many of whom are beggars, or doing low level farm work, or just hanging out with their families and doing the odd job to get by.

American workers productivity is simply a mathematical number based on national output divided by population. Since we use far more mechanization and software today, each worker does produce more than did our grandparents and great-grandparents.

But we certainly don't work as hard as they did, day by day, and that's the point. Actually if we did have the work ethic of the Depression generation, probably the nation's productivity would be much higher, and outsourcing would be less of an issue. The search for functional, literate, hard working people takes employers overseas because such people are harder and harder to find domestically.

Speak for yourself.

[blisterpeanuts]

Originally Posted by ATG5

Speak for yourself.

What a clever comeback! When you can't think of anything intelligent to say, just toss in an ad hominem.

[MsVaslovik]

Originally Posted by txdemo

I welcome foreign workers and the skills and diversity that they bring to Houston.

Nevermind that we are being displaced in our own country by them. If their own countries, economies, and cultures were any good they wouldn't need to be here, but they do, so what are we really importing?

[davenj08]

Originally Posted by ATG5

Speak for yourself.

If you suggesting that the current generation, or the one before, has the same work ethic and sincerity as the one right after the great depression or the second world war, you're lying to yourself.


It is proven that a generation that goes through economic hardship, and the one right after, has far more motivation to work hard and succeed. They value time, money, and hard work. No wonder immigrants coming from third world countries, who have seen hardship first hand are more motivated. Someone mentioned the newsstands and coffee shops are all run by immigrants. Wonder why? Because you can't find enough Americans to stand on their feet 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, willing to work nightshifts and on holidays and long weekends. Ask any fast food restaurant or convenience store owner about their #1 issue - and I bet they will say it is finding reliable labor.