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Old 12-29-2014, 02:46 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,257 posts, read 5,217,696 times
Reputation: 1877

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
The problem with them mostly is that they will do exactly as they are told to do. Nothing more, nothing less. If I sent the India DBAs a script that would expose confidential customer information, they'd run it without even questioning it. If I sent them a script that would drop a production database for a paying client, they'd do it. We have to write very detailed deployment instructions including naming the database files so they appear sequentially in Windows Explorer. If something's off by even a space, they won't run it. They also don't check e-mails before deploying so they miss any last-minute "STOP, DON'T DEPLOY!!!!" or "RUN THIS BEFORE EVERYTHING ELSE!" panicked e-mails from developers or the US-based DBAs. This leads to problems and someone has to stay up until 4-5 AM the day after deployment to supervise the India DBAs as they deploy. They share their screen and we watch every single step. It's a pain in the butt.
If they are prod DBAs, isn't that what they are supposed to do? It is not their role to review your code. Their role is strictly to deploy your changes in production AFTER the dev, BA and testers have done their IST/UAT and received sign-offs. They gets tens of change requests like yours across hundreds of application daily, not their role to understand each application and the scope of your change. Not sure you understand their role.
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:37 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,494,575 times
Reputation: 28570
Quote:
Originally Posted by davenj08 View Post
If they are prod DBAs, isn't that what they are supposed to do? It is not their role to review your code. Their role is strictly to deploy your changes in production AFTER the dev, BA and testers have done their IST/UAT and received sign-offs. They gets tens of change requests like yours across hundreds of application daily, not their role to understand each application and the scope of your change. Not sure you understand their role.
You're applying that logic to all organizations. Mine doesn't work that way. They're supposed to double-check what they're deploying. Key words: "supposed to." Our QA and UAT is also outsourced and it's a joke and a half.

Nobody signs anything off.

This is not 1995. Waterfall is dead in so many organizations. In came "agile" and out went standard safeguards...like testing. Like code review.
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Old 12-29-2014, 06:41 PM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,312,338 times
Reputation: 12922
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
You're applying that logic to all organizations. Mine doesn't work that way. They're supposed to double-check what they're deploying. Key words: "supposed to." Our QA and UAT is also outsourced and it's a joke and a half.

Nobody signs anything off.

This is not 1995. Waterfall is dead in so many organizations. In came "agile" and out went standard safeguards...like testing. Like code review.
Agile contains testing and code review. Since when did it not?
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:22 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,494,575 times
Reputation: 28570
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
Agile contains testing and code review. Since when did it not?
That's why I put the word in quotation marks, since it's not really Agile. It's my company's perversion of Agile. Emphasis on "perversion."
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:27 PM
 
24,488 posts, read 41,312,338 times
Reputation: 12922
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
That's why I put the word in quotation marks, since it's not really Agile. It's my company's perversion of Agile. Emphasis on "perversion."
That sucks. What keeps you there?
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Old 12-29-2014, 07:31 PM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,494,575 times
Reputation: 28570
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Originally Posted by NJBest View Post
That sucks. What keeps you there?
It's a crappy time of year to look for a new gig.

Resume is ready to roll out again in January. I'll just mark it down as a contract and quietly shop around for something better. I won't make a move until I find it.
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Old 12-29-2014, 08:44 PM
 
Location: TN/NC
35,353 posts, read 31,793,012 times
Reputation: 48034
One thing to note is that IT jobs being created overseas doesn't in itself constitute offshoring. If you open thirty new positions in India and don't impact US personnel, you did not offshore anything - you created a net gain of jobs.
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Old 12-29-2014, 10:09 PM
 
Location: New Jersey
2,257 posts, read 5,217,696 times
Reputation: 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
You're applying that logic to all organizations. Mine doesn't work that way. They're supposed to double-check what they're deploying. Key words: "supposed to." Our QA and UAT is also outsourced and it's a joke and a half.

Nobody signs anything off.

This is not 1995. Waterfall is dead in so many organizations. In came "agile" and out went standard safeguards...like testing. Like code review.
Agile and Waterfall relate to development cycles, not necessarily production deployment. How exactly does it work at your workplace? How exactly is a DBA, who supports tens of applications, supposed to code review and understand what is being done? Each change may constitute of hundreds of lines, and they may go through potentially tens of changes or patches each day in a normal organization.
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:10 AM
 
Location: California
28 posts, read 39,341 times
Reputation: 72
As management at IBM from 1959-1999 I can assure you our goal has always been to provide meaningful work to our employees and reward them for hard work. We only have good intentions. I should know the care we put into hiring US-native employees since I was involved in personnel management for a few decades.
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Old 12-30-2014, 05:15 AM
 
Location: North Texas
24,561 posts, read 40,494,575 times
Reputation: 28570
Quote:
Originally Posted by davenj08 View Post
Agile and Waterfall relate to development cycles, not necessarily production deployment. How exactly does it work at your workplace? How exactly is a DBA, who supports tens of applications, supposed to code review and understand what is being done? Each change may constitute of hundreds of lines, and they may go through potentially tens of changes or patches each day in a normal organization.
I know exactly what Agile and Waterfall are, I've been in IT for almost 18 years now.

Not all DBAs are created equal. There are actual DBAs, and then there are people who deploy code to production who have the title "DBA" and certain responsibilities on paper that they never fulfill in reality.

In my organization, DBAs are supposed to read the code before they deploy it. They don't do that. They do receive the code 24 hours prior to deployment, and these people do not deploy that many changes in a single day in our organization.

I could write page after page after page of how my company does it wrong. Throw everything you know about normal SDLCs and deployments out the window and imagine you're just making it up as you go along. That's how my company functions.
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