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Because they would like the heads-up about a bad employee themselves. A good business disclose factual information to others for the common good.
I once was manager and part owner in a business that provided a service to other business entities in the community. Every business was a client or potential client. When I had an employee or former employee apply to any business and was contacted for information I always gave all the info in the file as it related to facts. I never wanted a business to hire one of my previous employees and then find I had not told them about something that could have prevented them from have a loss or issues with that same employee. At that level it has little to do with the employee and much more to do with good business practice within the business community.
I remember one situation where I had allowed an employee to resign rather than be fired. (less headaches) A car dealership contacted me for information on him. I told them his strengths and that I thought he would be a good inside salesman where he had supervision but they must be aware that his wife would be an issue as she had been when he worked for me. I also divulged that he would have been fired and gave the reason along with how it was discovered and documented. I also told them I believed he did what he did (an actual crime had I pressed charges) because of his wife and if he should ever become free of her I would consider hiring him back.
oh dear...exactly what you posted is why many employers set policies that say managers cannot share anything. While it is certainly legal to share facts and truth, you should not share your "opinion", which can me construed as defamation. In the above statement, there are a lot of opinions.
1) While his wife may have been an issue at this job, there is no way to know with certainty that she would be an issue at a future job. Opinion, not fact.
2) He committed a crime that you did not charge him with, and you believe he did it because of his wife? Wow. You've just called him a criminal which you can't prove because you never had him charged for the crime. This is certainly libel and borderline slander. And you blamed it on the wife, which is defamation.
You should not say anything at all to future employers, as you really don'know the definition of "fact".
oh dear...exactly what you posted is why many employers set policies that say managers cannot share anything. While it is certainly legal to share facts and truth, you should not share your "opinion", which can me construed as defamation. In the above statement, there are a lot of opinions.
1) While his wife may have been an issue at this job, there is no way to know with certainty that she would be an issue at a future job. Opinion, not fact.
2) He committed a crime that you did not charge him with, and you believe he did it because of his wife? Wow. You've just called him a criminal which you can't prove because you never had him charged for the crime. This is certainly libel and borderline slander. And you blamed it on the wife, which is defamation.
You should not say anything at all to future employers, as you really don'know the definition of "fact".
I assure you I had enough documentation to back it all up. The crime part was a slam dunk. He stole money and I caught him as he was trying to pay it back. He confessed and resigned over it. I had his confession in writing signed. But some like yourself will argue with anything. It is people like you trying to had things that require us to disclose all that is in your file with others. It's just the facts.
I assure you I had enough documentation to back it all up. The crime part was a slam dunk. He stole money and I caught him as he was trying to pay it back. He confessed and resigned over it. I had his confession in writing signed. But some like yourself will argue with anything. It is people like you trying to had things that require us to disclose all that is in your file with others. It's just the facts.
i'm not trying to get you to disclose anything. I'm trying to tell you that what you said could get you in trouble. Even if you had something signed by the employee, it does not appear that you had anything signed by his wife regarding your comments against her. And while things may be "true" in reality, you need to ensure you could prove these comments in court.
i'm not trying to get you to disclose anything. I'm trying to tell you that what you said could get you in trouble. Even if you had something signed by the employee, it does not appear that you had anything signed by his wife regarding your comments against her. And while things may be "true" in reality, you need to ensure you could prove these comments in court.
I had the write-ups the employee signed about the issues with his wife on the few occasions I felt it need to be documented. Plus, if she sued me she has to prove I am wrong. A very hard thing to do when I have witnesses and documents to back me up. Not to mention they did not have the money to take us on. We could have drug it out for years in court until they ran out of money. My methods have gotten me by for over 30 years in such positions. I document everything. Today we have video and audio of every discussion I have with an employee as well.
I had the write-ups the employee signed about the issues with his wife on the few occasions I felt it need to be documented. Plus, if she sued me she has to prove I am wrong. A very hard thing to do when I have witnesses and documents to back me up. Not to mention they did not have the money to take us on. We could have drug it out for years in court until they ran out of money. My methods have gotten me by for over 30 years in such positions. I document everything. Today we have video and audio of every discussion I have with an employee as well.
I am very glad your "I have more money than them, so I always win" attitude has worked for you for 30 years.
Because they would like the heads-up about a bad employee themselves. A good business disclose factual information to others for the common good.
I once was manager and part owner in a business that provided a service to other business entities in the community. Every business was a client or potential client. When I had an employee or former employee apply to any business and was contacted for information I always gave all the info in the file as it related to facts. I never wanted a business to hire one of my previous employees and then find I had not told them about something that could have prevented them from have a loss or issues with that same employee. At that level it has little to do with the employee and much more to do with good business practice within the business community.
I remember one situation where I had allowed an employee to resign rather than be fired. (less headaches) A car dealership contacted me for information on him. I told them his strengths and that I thought he would be a good inside salesman where he had supervision but they must be aware that his wife would be an issue as she had been when he worked for me. I also divulged that he would have been fired and gave the reason along with how it was discovered and documented. I also told them I believed he did what he did (an actual crime had I pressed charges) because of his wife and if he should ever become free of her I would consider hiring him back.
Wow. My company would not approve of your tactics at ALL because you would be a prime target for a lawsuit. You are quite fortunate in that regard. Lawsuits are expensive even IF you win.
Every large company I have worked for now directs all such queries to HR where dates of employment are handed out and nothing further.
From what I see - this seems to be an extremely wise choice on their part. It's not worth it.
Reading some of these posts makes me glad on the decision I made quitting my last job Dec 24th (with adequate notice) losing a potential double pay for Christmas and New Years day working (Union store chain).
I went into business for myself and was a self employed business owner of (6) over a 36 yr span and NO REGRETS.
Made more money in two weeks than what my union scale would have been over a three month period.
A few weeks after leaving talked with a gopher (Supervisor errand man) who said I had NO future with the chain as it was believed that I had complained to a Union Rep on a issue others had complained about unknown to me. The issue I did have was a need for some papers from the Union for my Dr as the wife needed a Hysterectomy. Made NO difference at the main office since they would eventually consider me fodder. Things worked out for me and my health as I'm 83 yrs old.
I feel for many here and realize I was Lucky in my decision after reading some posts.
I think it is illegal for a company to say why you were let go/fired/quit. All they can LEGALLY say is that you don't work there. but I imagine that this law isn't followed to the letter all the time.
No, it is not illegal as long as it's true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito
I don't think by law they're allowed to say a whole lot.
Wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by convextech
Wrong. An employer is not allowed to say anything except if they could be rehired, and verification of salary.
Also wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito
By law, people can also sue them for that. It is mind boggling that anybody would.
People can sue for almost anything. That doesn't mean they will win, and frivolous lawsuits can prove costly to those who file them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osito
No you have no idea what you're talking about. This is America, man, anybody can sue you for anything.
Although the second sentence is somewhat true, the first one isn't.
It seems we go around on this periodically.
It is NOT "illegal" for an employer to disclose information about your performance, why you were terminated, or anything else as long as whatever is said is true. With that said, most employers of any size have internal policies that restrict what information is disclosed, usually limiting it to dates of employment and salary. Few even disclose the oft repeated "eligible for rehire" status, which is almost always for internal use only (why? Because answering "no" to that question with no other details would be inviting a lawsuit, due to the negative connotation that carries. Even if such a suit were to be won by the employer it would be costly, so why take the chance?). There simply is no benefit to the former employer in providing a reference of any kind, good or bad, and a large potential downside (because people can and do file lawsuits for almost anything), so any company with an HR department or corporate counsel worth a hoot will have policies that restrict references severely.
But since I know logic rarely trumps urban legend, I also invite any of you interweb lawyers in this thread to go ahead and post a link to an actual law from anywhere in the US that says giving a reference is illegal. Not a link to a blog, article, editorial, or forum but a link to an actual law.
I have already acknowledged that anyone can sue anyone else for anything. That does not mean that their case has any merit. I can sue you. Is that something you are concerned about? .
People can sue for almost anything. That doesn't mean they will win, and frivolous lawsuits can prove costly to those who file them.
Although the second sentence is somewhat true, the first one isn't. You're the clueless one.
It seems we go around on this periodically.
It is NOT "illegal" for an employer to disclose information about your performance, why you were terminated, or anything else as long as whatever is said is true. With that said, most employers of any size have internal policies that restrict what information is disclosed, usually limiting it to dates of employment and salary. Few even disclose the oft repeated "eligible for rehire" status, which is almost always for internal use only (why? Because answering "no" to that question with no other details would be inviting a lawsuit, due to the negative connotation that carries. Even if such a suit were to be won by the employer it would be costly, so why take the chance?). There simply is no benefit to the former employer in providing a reference of any kind, good or bad, and a large potential downside (because people can and do file lawsuits for almost anything), so any company with an HR department or corporate counsel worth a hoot will have policies that restrict references severely.
But since I know logic rarely trumps urban legend, I also invite any of you interweb lawyers in this thread to go ahead and post a link to an actual law from anywhere in the US that says giving a reference is illegal. Not a link to a blog, article, editorial, or forum but a link to an actual law.
We'll wait.
I didn't say they would win, I said they could sue and waste their own time, and somebody else's. You're the clueless one being that you can't even read apparently.
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