Report: 95% Of Grandfathers Got Job By Walking Right Up And Just Asking (The Onion) (job application, owner)
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Here's the fact: If you're someone with proven credentials for a type of job that exists, then you won't have to apply for jobs; companies will find you and hand you a job on a silver platter. My friend, a skillful programmer and electrical engineer, had companies calling him up as soon as he got his EE degree from a reputable university. My dad, a surgeon, already makes tons of money and yet he gets higher-paying job offers all the time. There are small towns in Middle America that need surgeons and offer them upwards of $1,000,000/yr to move there.
So, basically, what we have in America is 5-10% of the population that is highly valued in a career sense and the other 90-95% has to desperately compete over the other jobs that exist. No employers plan on training people into promising entry-level positions, so you have a widening experience gap that leads to this weird situation where many people need jobs and yet the people who already have jobs are the only ones able to get one.
Complaint seen over and over on this and other threads: They shipped jobs out of the U.S. as they outsourced our jobs.
Fact: A lot of foreign owned companies have been insourcing jobs, by foreign companies. Millions of jobs infact, and they on the average pay better than American Companies.
How about the fact that 10 foreign owned companies build cars in the U.S. often with larger factories than the two American owned companies. Yes only 2, as the Obama administration sold Chrysler/Jeep to Italy. At least one of the Japanese companies, build more cars in U.S. than in Japan.
Other complaints that they send out resumes by the hundreds and even thousands. They send applications to every job they think they would be interested in, even though only a very few are they even qualified for. No wonder they don't get any response.
They complain no one wants them, even though they went to college. The fact that they took a degree in a worthless subject, that has thousands of graduates, and almost no jobs being created each year. Their degrees are worthless to most employers, so their applications go into the waste basket.
They complain about the starting wages they are offered, as they need $50,000 per year or more to handle their living costs and their student loans. They say $39,000 is a low ball offer. Fact the starting wage for that type of degree may average only $32,000. Instead of a low ball offer, they got a very top level wage offer, far better than their degree deserves. Wages by college degree go from just under $30,000 to almost $100,000 for starting wages. If you take a bad degree for demand and income (remember the bigger the surplus of people with degree, the lower the wages), you are actually no better off in getting a good starting wage than high school graduates in many of the trades, as your degree is near worthless in the job market.
In parts of the country, it is almost impossible for many people to find a job. In other parts, there are openings all around for decent pay jobs. Minimum wage jobs in those areas, walk in, fill out an application, and go to work the next day. They can't find enough workers.
Good example. Last year a company wanted to open a call center, for a help desk for a large corporation. They needed 300 people from IT people to set up and run the system, down to help desk people, and everything in between. They were going to offer training programs. They wanted to hire people to train for department managers. They were paying very competitive wages. They were advised by the state employment service to run an ad for help before they even attempted to put in the facility. They ran an ad for a month, and got 77 total applicants. This was the biggest city in Montana. They tried 3 places in Montana, and ended up putting it in another state. This same problem, when they try to set up anything in Montana needing any large number of people. Several good employers, who in many places would be over running over with applicants in the thousands have tried to set up here, with the same problem.
Go over to the Oil Patch in North East Montana, and North West North Dakota, and they can't fill jobs. McDonald's advertises $22 an hour to start on their reader boards. There they don't tell you to fill out an application for jobs over the Internet. They hire on the spot, if you qualify for the job and can start the day you apply if you can do so.
When people say you can't walk in and get a job anymore and have to apply over the Internet, that may apply to their area, but not for lots of the U.S. In parts of the U.S., companies have help wanted signs out everywhere you look.
And at over 80, I have seen other periods of time it was just as difficult to find jobs in many parts of the country as it is today. But through those periods of time, people worked harder at getting jogs they were qualified for. They did not sit home and send resumes over the Internet for any open jobs, and wonder why if you send out 1,000 applications for jobs you are not qualified for, and wonder why they could not get an interview. They realized, that if they were not qualified for a job don't apply as there are people that are qualified for the job looking for work.
They did not turn down jobs in their own field that paid $30,000which was the going rate in that field, and demand $50,000 as that is how much money they wanted. So many young people today got useless degrees as far as the job market is concerned, and are finding it impossible to accept the fact their skills are useful for certain jobs, and those fields only pay so much money. They are also finding a fact, that they may have to take a job that would only require a high school education, as there are 10 graduates with their degree for every job in the field, and as far as getting a job, they have no education for jobs that would not be able to be handled by a high school graduate in other fields.
They made a foolish decision to go for an easy or fun for them degree, without regard if there was going to be a demand for their degree, and how much would it pay for a job in their field.
I've heard this many times from middle-aged people who haven't had to look for a job in years. If you walk into a place now and ask about employment opportunities, they often tell you to apply online. If you refuse to leave, they will call security or the police.
Depending on the field, you might not even be able to enter certain places without working there (id) or having an interview.
Other complaints that they send out resumes by the hundreds and even thousands. They send applications to every job they think they would be interested in, even though only a very few are they even qualified for. No wonder they don't get any response.
They complain no one wants them, even though they went to college. The fact that they took a degree in a worthless subject, that has thousands of graduates, and almost no jobs being created each year. Their degrees are worthless to most employers, so their applications go into the waste basket.
Assuming that these students went to college right out of high school (17-18 year olds), these kids have had it drummed into their heads their whole lives that college (not a specific degree, but college, period) was the ticket to a well-paying job. Many of these kids are being told that the purpose of college is not for job training, but to learn critical thinking skills and to be more "well rounded". I've seen and heard those arguments time and time again. These kids were/are also being told that it really doesn't matter what degree they get, with the exception of a few fields, as long as they get that piece of paper. They are being told that there are shortages in certain professions, only to find out that, when they leave school, that there's now a glut of candidates with the same credentials in those professions.
They, and their parents, are being bombarded with (IMO) crappy advice from people that don't have to live with the consequences of the decisions that these kids make as a result of said advice.
They complain about the starting wages they are offered, as they need $50,000 per year or more to handle their living costs and their student loans. They say $39,000 is a low ball offer. Fact the starting wage for that type of degree may average only $32,000. Instead of a low ball offer, they got a very top level wage offer, far better than their degree deserves. Wages by college degree go from just under $30,000 to almost $100,000 for starting wages. If you take a bad degree for demand and income (remember the bigger the surplus of people with degree, the lower the wages), you are actually no better off in getting a good starting wage than high school graduates in many of the trades, as your degree is near worthless in the job market.
I addressed the demand for certain degrees in the above paragraphs.What's in demand now may well not be when these kids finish school, assuming that they are graduating with bachelor's degrees (which, for many, is taking more than the traditional 4 years to complete).
In parts of the country, it is almost impossible for many people to find a job. In other parts, there are openings all around for decent pay jobs. Minimum wage jobs in those areas, walk in, fill out an application, and go to work the next day. They can't find enough workers.
Good example. Last year a company wanted to open a call center, for a help desk for a large corporation. They needed 300 people from IT people to set up and run the system, down to help desk people, and everything in between. They were going to offer training programs. They wanted to hire people to train for department managers. They were paying very competitive wages. They were advised by the state employment service to run an ad for help before they even attempted to put in the facility. They ran an ad for a month, and got 77 total applicants. This was the biggest city in Montana. They tried 3 places in Montana, and ended up putting it in another state. This same problem, when they try to set up anything in Montana needing any large number of people. Several good employers, who in many places would be over running over with applicants in the thousands have tried to set up here, with the same problem.
Then why in the world are these companies trying to open up shop in Montana, if they've had such poor results? Here we're talking about the definition of insanity doing the same things and expecting different results WRT individuals sending out resumes. Maybe these companies, who have the funds and the resources to do their due diligence comparative to an individual sending out resumes, should accept some responsibility for choosing poor locations in which to operate.
Go over to the Oil Patch in North East Montana, and North West North Dakota, and they can't fill jobs. McDonald's advertises $22 an hour to start on their reader boards. There they don't tell you to fill out an application for jobs over the Internet. They hire on the spot, if you qualify for the job and can start the day you apply if you can do so.
When people say you can't walk in and get a job anymore and have to apply over the Internet, that may apply to their area, but not for lots of the U.S. In parts of the U.S., companies have help wanted signs out everywhere you look.
And at over 80, I have seen other periods of time it was just as difficult to find jobs in many parts of the country as it is today. But through those periods of time, people worked harder at getting jogs they were qualified for. They did not sit home and send resumes over the Internet for any open jobs, and wonder why if you send out 1,000 applications for jobs you are not qualified for, and wonder why they could not get an interview. They realized, that if they were not qualified for a job don't apply as there are people that are qualified for the job looking for work.
It may not be that they are not at all qualified for the position to which they are applying. When companies post a job description for a position, what they are describing is their ideal candidate.If someone has most, but not all, of the qualifications, why not apply? There are skills that are transferrable from one industry to another. For grins and giggles, I've looked at job descriptions for positions that I was already holding at the time, and what they were asking for sounded like a description for a different position. And let's not forget the people who are willing to take a position fo which they are "overqualified" (read: age discrimination, "we don't want to pay you what you're worth", or "we know you'll quit as soon as you find something better".
In all fairness, maybe it's the content of the resume that's the issue. Computer systems scan resumes for certain keywords, and if those keywords aren't present, out the resume goes.
They did not turn down jobs in their own field that paid $30,000which was the going rate in that field, and demand $50,000 as that is how much money they wanted. So many young people today got useless degrees as far as the job market is concerned, and are finding it impossible to accept the fact their skills are useful for certain jobs, and those fields only pay so much money. They are also finding a fact, that they may have to take a job that would only require a high school education, as there are 10 graduates with their degree for every job in the field, and as far as getting a job, they have no education for jobs that would not be able to be handled by a high school graduate in other fields.
They made a foolish decision to go for an easy or fun for them degree, without regard if there was going to be a demand for their degree, and how much would it pay for a job in their field.
These are points that I addressed above. Why assume that the one's degree choice is about what's "fun" or "easy"? If everyone went into STEM majors, guess what, we'd have an oversupply of STEM graduates. I think these people are doing the best that they know how with the information that they have at the time.
These are points that I addressed above. Why assume that the one's degree choice is about what's "fun" or "easy"? If everyone went into STEM majors, guess what, we'd have an oversupply of STEM graduates. I think these people are doing the best that they know how with the information that they have at the time.
STEM already has enough graduates, the problem is companies dint want to train and want turn-key employees to fill their positions no matter if it is entry level, junior level or even higher up the chain.
Then why in the world are these companies trying to open up shop in Montana, if they've had such poor results? Here we're talking about the definition of insanity doing the same things and expecting different results WRT individuals sending out resumes.
For one reason, Montana is considered a lot more business friendly than the states with the huge unemployment problems that has been driving businesses out of them. The companies are looking for a better place to operate, that does not take years to get the permits to put the business in the area. Example to open a business in California today, takes as much as 2 years or longer to get the permits to do so, plus the operating costs can run 40% higher than other places where the rent or property development is not through the roof etc. Montana is a great place to operate. Good people, reasonable permit process, reasonable land costs and building costs. Just not enough available employees.
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Maybe these companies, who have the funds and the resources to do their due diligence comparative to an individual sending out resumes, should accept some responsibility for choosing poor locations in which to operate.
What they are doing is due diligence. They are going to places that would be perfect for them, and checking things out. Part of that due diligence is checking to see if they can find enough applicants to fill the jobs. They are trying to eliminate the poor locations to operate, by avoiding extremely high cost areas do do business such as Los Angeles or New York City. They are trying to do due diligence by avoiding places that it can take years to get a permit to even open the doors such as California does, which is considered the most business unfriendly state in the union. These two reasons alone, are why Apple is putting their new billion dollar laptop facility in Texas.
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STEM already has enough graduates, the problem is companies dint want to train and want turn-key employees to fill their positions no matter if it is entry level, junior level or even higher up the chain.
Two good reasons they don't want to train. 1)--There are enough people looking for jobs that are qualified, they don't have to go to the trouble and expense to train those that are not qualified. 2)--Too many people just want a job, with the attitude today that they will leave as soon as they can for a better job. Why train someone, so they will be qualified for a job with someone else and you will never recover the cost of training them as they will soon be leaving as soon as they have the training. AS long as there are trained people looking for a job, why go to expense and time to train those that are not qualified?
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In all fairness, maybe it's the content of the resume that's the issue. Computer systems scan resumes for certain keywords, and if those keywords aren't present, out the resume goes.
Then it is the fault of the person submitting the resume if they are qualified. They put out one that is a one size fits all, and mass email it to hundreds of companies. Of course they are going to be rejected. A resume should be tailored to fit a particular job and the business one is applying to. You can't send out hundreds a day this way, but do it the way so many are doing, and you have hundreds of places reject your resume.
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Many of these kids are being told that the purpose of college is not for job training, but to learn critical thinking skills and to be more "well rounded". I've seen and heard those arguments time and time again. These kids were/are also being told that it really doesn't matter what degree they get, with the exception of a few fields, as long as they get that piece of paper.
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They, and their parents, are being bombarded with (IMO) crappy advice from people that don't have to live with the consequences of the decisions that these kids make as a result of said advice.
Then the person that gave them such advice, is really the reason so many young people cannot get a well paying job today. But getting a near worthless degree, is the reason a lot of young people cannot get a high paid job.
Their only real path to a job is to accept a job in the field they trained in, and live with the wages that job will pay them, and quit complaining about the terribly low wages for someone with a college degree.
STEM already has enough graduates, the problem is companies dint want to train and want turn-key employees to fill their positions no matter if it is entry level, junior level or even higher up the chain.
I didn't realize that until after I posted here and read on another thread that there actually isn't a shortage of STEM graduates. When I posted, I was thinking of the so-called "nursing shortage" as well as the number of law degree and MBA holders compared to the job prospects available. You know, while I wouldn't dissuade anyone from getting a degree, more and more it just seems like these kids are graduating with "a mortgage and no house".
You describe our current economy quite well. I am in my 40s, too young for boomer privelage so I have been dealing with the new economy for my whole working life. Like you said, those older folks (baby boom generation and older) worked for one solid employer their whole lives got pensions etc. That ended with my generation, and since I entered the workforce in the late 80s it has gotten progressively worse. In fact the last 10 years its gotten expedentially worse. I feel sorry for those poor millenials, some of them may never work or they will flip burgers for life. When did it get screwed up? well it seems to me it got screwed up when our government started signing those free trade agreements. First was Nafta then all the others that followed. Now everything is made in China, and our good jobs went to China. Your appliances used to be American made, TVs used to be American made, cars used to be American made, household tools and small kitchen appliances used to be American made, toys used to be American made, and even clothing used to be American made. Now the Chinese make all of this. We need not wonder why people have to fight and scratch for menial employment, go to four year college for entry level work, it is because of free trade. The rich and greedy worked with corrupt politicians to bring this about. A new gilded age is underway for the wealthy, and we the minions will live like they did during the last gilded age.
As a boomer, I agree with everything you say here, except for the boomer generation working for one solid employer their whole lives with pensions. That is mostly true of our parents generation though. Many of us 'boomers' were with companies a long time, most of us without pensions, but there was profit sharing and other tax deferred type accounts. Then when things starting changing in the late 80s/early 90s, when companies started buying up other companies left and right, NAFTA, etc. many of us found ourselves out and looking for work in our prime working years. Fortunately back then it was much easier to find work then it is today. We were the first generation that started job hopping for better pay and positions. This is also hurt our retirement funds from building up with one company. If you did manage to remain with a company a long time, the recent economic disaster really screwed us. We lost our jobs and are now in our 50's and find it impossible to find a job. Our houses have lost their equity and a lot of us can't sell them to downsize with our reduced incomes, not talking McMansions, regular middle class homes we raised our families in. Our meager retirement funds were reduced in the recent economic disaster and we don't have the years ahead of us to build it up again.
Everything is royally screwed up, for everybody. I feel incredibly sorry for our children, younger people, because they'll never have any real kind of job security. It is definitely a new gilded age, disgusting as it is.
Two good reasons they don't want to train. 1)--There are enough people looking for jobs that are qualified, they don't have to go to the trouble and expense to train those that are not qualified. 2)--Too many people just want a job, with the attitude today that they will leave as soon as they can for a better job. Why train someone, so they will be qualified for a job with someone else and you will never recover the cost of training them as they will soon be leaving as soon as they have the training. AS long as there are trained people looking for a job, why go to expense and time to train those that are not qualified?
The issue is for the most part these positions require so many preferred requirements in the job description it is for people already in that job in that company rather than an outsider. If your company uses Citana 4 and your competitor uses Kotana 3 (a similar auto-CAD that I just named to prove a point,) unless you've used Kotana 3 before, you wouldn't likely be able to be the turn key employee they want.
As for people jumping, I can see that but if a job seeker stays for the average 4 years is that really a problem? Until we start training, we will see a structural unemployment problem where people cannot fill the jobs in the future because nobody gave them the experience because needed said experience in the first place.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
The issue is for the most part these positions require so many preferred requirements in the job description it is for people already in that job in that company rather than an outsider. If your company uses Citana 4 and your competitor uses Kotana 3 (a similar auto-CAD that I just named to prove a point,) unless you've used Kotana 3 before, you wouldn't likely be able to be the turn key employee they want.
As for people jumping, I can see that but if a job seeker stays for the average 4 years is that really a problem? Until we start training, we will see a structural unemployment problem where people cannot fill the jobs in the future because nobody gave them the experience because needed said experience in the first place.
That won't happen as long as there are so many experienced people applying for every job. Back in the 90s when employers had to compete for the best people they were willing to train, and to keep expanding benefits to attract people away from other companies. Employers now are just taking advantage of the opportunity to avoid the cost of training and being able to get people that can hit the ground running.
It's smart financially, but the unfortunate effect is the lack of opportunities for those without experience.
I'd expect that to change as the peak boomers hit 70 and start to retire in large numbers, in about 8 years.
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