Drop the "S" from STEM? What do you think about this article? (applying, temporary)
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The problem with certain fields is that they are overhyped by the media and then like lemmings, the college students think it will separate them from the other lemmings... Problem is, they are all lemmings... Reminds me when healthcare was hot and not you have all these unemployed nurses, aides, etc... When you got more than you need, it depresses wages for that field... I am waiting for the technical job revival... I wonder if people notice electricians are paid $80 an hour and car mechanics are paid $120 an hour....
There is not that many good jobs out there any more .
I am still going to go to college and keep on taking classes I just cant be retail loser for the rest my life.
There is not that many good jobs out there any more .
I am still going to go to college and keep on taking classes I just cant be retail loser for the rest my life.
I think your plan to go to college is a great. Realistically, no matter what field, as long as you go through the #1 college program for that field, you'll have no trouble finding a job.
Even the owner of the shop won't be making that much. They might be bringing in $120 an hour, but that money doesn't go straight into someone's pocket. There are operating costs that have to be paid for before a profit can be made. Electricians aren't making $80 an hour either. They make about $20-25 an hour.
"Twitter's contributions are things like bootstrap and hogan. The hogan compiler is the most widely used. They have changed the way that we develop web applications in a matter of a few years. I've never argued they rank with NASA in terms of science. I'm just saying that these tech companies are constantly making major contributions to the field and are hiring computer scientists to do so."
If you name organizations then naturally I would argue that you are implying they are equal. No twitter is not a high technology company.
"Clearly you have no idea what Twitter and Bitly do. I always find it difficult to have these dicussions with people that are out of touch with technology precisely because they think things like "twitter is only microblogging" and "bitly just shortens URL's". It helps to really understand the organizations you are talking about."
I care about the end user experience. If the average person on the street does not think that Twitter is a technology company then it is not. Pure and simple. You cannot use a insider method to describe terminology and definition. You cannot use a word to define itself!
When people think of technology they think of what they use. Sure it's hardware and software but also devices. Apple of course, Google... back in the day there was Sony and it has been argued that Samsung is the new Sony.
From the USER perspective Twitter is practically an RSS feed with replies back and forth or a Facebook Status update. Yes it can be searched and indexed but that goes for much of computing.
Remember the dot com bubble? What was the problem? People created companies with little account for how they make money. They overextended themselves and went bankrupt. This is why it is important for technology to always make some form of income at least outside of open source. What specifically does Facebook do that cannot be done with some other form of a GUI? Same for Twitter? I don't hate either product. Personally I like twitter on the smartphone rather than desktop but frankly everything with technology just copies each other.
"I fight for the user" - Tron
"There's an entire field emerging out of the design aspect."
So it's only emerging now? ::sigh::
"I wonder if people notice electricians are paid $80 an hour and car mechanics are paid $120 an hour...."
Uh...not really. That might be a charged rate but once you account for how much the firms makes and how much supplies cost and taxation the actual pay is much lower. Remember once they added OBD II it assured that independent mechanics would not be able to fully control their engines. That's why car companies have service plans that require you to go to their dealerships with their mechanics. Not that those are bad jobs but you are not nearly in control as you were decades prior.
If you name organizations then naturally I would argue that you are implying they are equal.
Then you would be arguing based on assumption. You shouldn't assume. In natural English context, when people list out items, there is an implied relationship between those items. It does not mean the items are equal. In this case, the items are organizations of technology that utilize computer scientists to further the field of computer science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
No twitter is not a high technology company.
Twitter is a technology company.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
I care about the end user experience. If the average person on the street does not think that Twitter is a technology company then it is not. Pure and simple. You cannot use a insider method to describe terminology and definition. You cannot use a word to define itself!
This isn't really about your opinion. It's about the fact that Twitter (along with the other companies I listed) are technology companies that utilize computer scientists to further computer science. You know, in relation to the actual topic of the thread... STEM?
This thread isn't about what you or what people outside of the field *think* about a company. The idea that you're actually trying that angle is astonishing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
When people think of technology they think of what they use. Sure it's hardware and software but also devices. Apple of course, Google... back in the day there was Sony and it has been argued that Samsung is the new Sony.
Again, what people think of a company has nothing to do with whether they hire computer scientists. Do you seriously think that because people don't *think* Twitter is a technology company that Twitter all of a sudden doesn't hire computer scientists? That's just silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
From the USER perspective Twitter is practically an RSS feed with replies back and forth or a Facebook Status update. Yes it can be searched and indexed but that goes for much of computing.
But the reality is that Twitter is a technology company that makes things like the Hogan compiler and bootstrap that are used by others to further the field. In fact, look at the latest commits on the Hogan compiler... they're adding template inheritance. Is that not something that computer scientists would be needed for because the USER perspective is that Twitter is just microblogging?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdovell
Remember the dot com bubble? What was the problem? People created companies with little account for how they make money. They overextended themselves and went bankrupt. This is why it is important for technology to always make some form of income at least outside of open source. What specifically does Facebook do that cannot be done with some other form of a GUI? Same for Twitter? I don't hate either product. Personally I like twitter on the smartphone rather than desktop but frankly everything with technology just copies each other.
Now you're just going way offtopic just for the sake of arguing. What does this have to do STEM fields?
The first 10 are all engineering. The first science degree is #11 Physics. There's definitely still a demand for people trained as scientists and those jobs still pay pretty well. I don't think the demand is as overwhelming as has been stated by certain companies looking to lower their labor costs lead us to believe, though.
There's also less demand for those scientists to pursue fields that are directly related to their fields of study.
11 out of 130 is not bad. Geology is 21. Biochem and Chem are 24/25. Mid career salaries are not bad.
I am not sure why it is important that people work directly in their field of study. As long as they are employable, make decent money, and are happy why would it matter?
You seriously believe these stats? It hasn't occurred to you they might be created by parties benefiting from a large pool or students regardless of these students having any prospect of ever getting employed? Like universities who just love you to pay tuition fees or companies that just love to have a big pool of students to cherry pick their future employees from. And the larger the pool, the lower the salary they can offer. Simple economics.
Maybe you should read about the education bubble.
I believe there is an education bubble but I don't think it is as bad in the sciences.
Besides physics, I see a few social science degrees make more than the sciences. As someone else said, the top is filled with engineering, math, and technology. Biology is also on Payscale's list of one of the top 10 most underemployed majors.
The fact that some social science degrees make more doesn't mean the sciences are bad places to seek employment. Biology does appear to be worse than the other sciences but it is not the only science. It's hard to generalize about fields as different as Geology and Biology. Both are sciences but are not remotely similar in employment prospects.
I'd got a PhD before I really started paying attention to the job markets. I jumped fields and parlayed my scientific literacy into an asset, but yea don't overrate the S in STEM. There's a reason that most biology PhD students and post-docs nowadays come from countries where a $26K salary is considered a lot of cash.
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