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Young people may be more idealistic than older workers who accept any job as work is work & pay is pay.
Back in the 70s, we Boomers wanted our jobs to be "relevant." That got squeezed out of us somehow in the 80s. But for a while, we weren't any different from the Millennials.
It's ironic you accuse me not comprehending your flawed posts when you won't even read mine. You are backtrackingwhen you bashed Gen Y can't do math in their head, now you contracting your previous point so you act like you are still right no matter what?
Backtracking? Not comprehending? Ok let me backtrack slowly now so you can see just how off base you are with your post. By the way I read every word you wrote. Here is part of my post you quoted in regards to Calculus:
"Me referring to calculus was for the exact reason you stated. As you said it does not usually have an application in everyday life. Yet, we Millennials in our self delusion of greatness think that because we are highly educated in whatever we are educated in means that we are “smarter, intelligent, special, better etc.”"
You replied with:
Quote:
Originally Posted by panderson1988
Your intelligence argument is laughable. Someone's intelligence isn't bared down to test scores or how they can calculate matrices in their head. In reality the only way you can test someone's intelligence is how they do in a position or at a certain task.
Am I not saying that "higher education DOES NOT equal intelligence"? The same thing your accusing me of not saying? Anyone who reads my post with basic level comprehension skills can clearly see what I was saying. Do you see why I stated that your completely not comprehending what I wrote? So as you can see there was no backtracking. In fact here is my original post regarding calculus (post #42) :
"We confuse our higher education and total amount of knowledge we possess as real intelligence. Real intelligence is the ability to think; the ability to use that knowledge to connect the dots of life to propel us to get ahead."
Again I'm saying the exact same thing as above. Higher education as in "test scores and such" as you put it, DOES NOT equal intelligence. So now that the backtracking part has been completely disproved, I want you to prove what your saying. Make a logical post for once instead of insults and accusations by showing me one post of mine, where I said that "millennials can't do math in their head." Until you can do that your credibility is sorely lacking. But to be honest you won't, because I never said that. Further proof of you chooseing to not comprehend what I'm saying for the sake of being right or you are reading words from my post and coming up with your own interpretation.
You know when I see certain posts I have to LOL hard. Your post was one of them. And I mean that as a compliment. I LOL’ed because the only people that bothered to actually read my link instead of just making an argument for the sake of being right were people that WEREN'T millennials. That speaks volumes about the generational difference in terms of the degradation of positive traits from generation to generation. Thank you for engaging me in a logical discussion instead of an argument where the objective is to be "right no matter what the facts say."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
The article compared age groups and found that today's 20-year-olds are more narcissistic than today's 65-year-olds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
Well, that's certainly not news. That's always been true!
I wasn't referring to that fact. There were other studies quoted in that article that were done when previous generations were young and then compared to millennials of today. I know the article was long so maybe you overlooked them. The results showed that millennials as a whole possessed the traits I listed much more often then previous generations. After all these generalizations started for a reason. Here are some links to many objective studies done that support the fact that millennials possess those traits much more often then any previous generation:
http://graceuniversity.edu/iip/2013/05/13-05-25-1/ This links to an article that summarizes an extensive study done on millennials and previous generations. This is one of the most comprehensive studies that was conducted. It has direct comparison to past generations because it was given to the boomers WHILE they were young in the 60’s and 70’s. Furthermore, it has a high sample rate making the study highly accurate to a point where I would say it’s close to facts.
I think you meant "succeeding" rather than "preceding," but your point is particularly significant in this case because the Boomer generation had been born into an economic period unprecedented in human history. From the 1940s to the 1970s, the United States held absolute global industrial supremacy because in the aftermath of WWII, all competitors had been completely smashed and the US was left more industrially powerful than ever. All the world desperately needed industrial goods to rebuild, and the US was practically the sole supplier.
There was no way that peak of economic success could be maintained forever. In fact, that bubble broke in the late 60s when Europe and Japan finally caught up.
And you’re absolutely correct regarding the economy playing a huge role in the success of the Boomers. And yes I meant to type "succeeding" What I was referring to in regards to history and the decline of succeeding generations was tied in with the economy. I wasn’t saying that Y’s negative traits is the only reason why the USA will continue to decline; I was saying that it is one of the reasons among many. The USA peaked as an economic powerhouse in the period you stated. This helped previous generations thrive.
However, right after the peak started the slow decline which is never obvious at the onset. The USA is no different. Because of our prosperity each succeeding generation had to "try" less to be successful, thus they possessed fewer qualities then the preceding generations had that made the USA great. So what I'm saying is generation degradation leads us to the present where generation Y has degraded to a point of having the most propensities towards the negative traits I listed compared to previous generations. I'm sure their children will be worse and then they can take over the title of "worst generation." Just like X'ers had that title before Y's joined the workforce.
Last edited by griffon652; 03-17-2014 at 12:03 AM..
I've read your "evidence" in the past and it is the same article I read from Time months ago which the same story has been beaten to death since 60 minutes did a piece in 2008. The claims could be applied to ANY generation. Young people have ALWAYS been know-it-alls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
I don't think millennials really think they are the best thing since sliced bread. The issue is they were entitled. Their generational parents whether actual parents or influences like teachers and politicians made them much more entitled than other generations have been before.
The one question about your study is where are the studies from when Gen X entered the workplace and when Boomers entered the workplace. That is a better apples-to-apples comparison.
I understand your skepticism of my points, especially since I only posted one link that you previously read. I'm sure you recall I had little time yesterday to post. I just posted up the most common article because I had little time to go back and find the studies that were more in-depth but harder to find. However, today I had the time so I decided to go back and find all the studies I have read to come to my conclusion.
I have included those links in the reply to Kirk in my previous post. I have no gain in bashing my own generation. But I have to call it like I see it. I tried to find evidence to disprove all the negative traits I listed. Unfortunately, almost every objective study conducted (including ones supporting millennials) agree on the traits I listed.
Therefore, I’m not going to defend my generation just because I’m part of it. I agree that it’s not completely our fault that we turned out this way. Most of the blame lies in how we were raised. However, the fact still stands that we possess those negative traits much more often then any previous generation regardless of what caused us to be that way. Feel free to look at all the links but if you’re short on time look at the first link I provided. It summarizes the one of the most extensive generational studies ever conducted. It fits the apples to apples comparison you were looking for and has a high sample rate to eliminate inaccuracies.
I understand your skepticism of my points, especially since I only posted one link that you previously read. I'm sure you recall I had little time yesterday to post. I just posted up the most common article because I had little time to go back and find the studies that were more in-depth but harder to find. However, today I had the time so I decided to go back and find all the studies I have read to come to my conclusion.
I have included those links in the reply to Kirk in my previous post. I have no gain in bashing my own generation. But I have to call it like I see it. I tried to find evidence to disprove all the negative traits I listed. Unfortunately, almost every objective study conducted (including ones supporting millennials) agree on the traits I listed.
Therefore, I’m not going to defend my generation just because I’m part of it. I agree that it’s not completely our fault that we turned out this way. Most of the blame lies in how we were raised. However, the fact still stands that we possess those negative traits much more often then any previous generation regardless of what caused us to be that way. Feel free to look at all the links but if you’re short on time look at the first link I provided. It summarizes the one of the most extensive generational studies ever conducted. It fits the apples to apples comparison you were looking for and has a high sample rate to eliminate inaccuracies.
The skepticism is because a majority of millennials based articles just spout the same thing (perhaps because people use the same base assumptions like the number of the slacker articles towards Gen X.) I do not disagree that we are use to instant positive feedback based on social media. There are things Millennials do that are stupid such as putting party invites on MySpace or Facebook and wonderng why 500 people show up (just look at this case.) To me alot of what Millennials did is really no different than gen x and boomers before them, they just have new names and faces but are still derivitive of boomers taking down mailboxes with a baseball bat.
One of your posts was about the next generation (Generation Z) and I knew they would get the same treatment. The writer confuses them with Millennials so I would say it is a completely discredited article. Well that is besides each generation becomes more entitled, something we have seen for generations. I mean even Socrates stated that over 2300 years ago.
The one article that actually worth the read because it shows another side ishttp://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf This article is long but VERY worth it's weight. The only issue I see is that this article compare Millennials to Gen X by age brackets not thoughts at that point. This has been the issue in many "this next generation sucks" and why I compared it to Baby Herman loosing his stogie. There are changes that come with and affect the next generation I mean we are now teaching kids to use tablets for learning systems so it will likely be a job requirement to be fluent in tablet usage.
I am not trying to throw out the points from other articles, it's just people always use the entitled, narcissistic garden variety talking points in any anti-millennial article. Again, this goes back to my notice of going back to the Twenge books rather than doing their own research like the contradictory red wine studies we hear on the local news at least twice a month. Sadly with generational data, there is not as much research after the initial findings which hurts that generation because minds are made up and hard to change.
One point in closing is the idea of kids that never grow up that was brought up a 2008 60 Minutes piece. Economic factors don't exactly allow for it. Think about it, the cost of rent relative to wages, is higher than ever so they either move in together or move back in with their parents. This give millennials spending money that they spend for whatever (vacations, video games, comic-con tickets, wrestling, ect.) The jobs that require millennials to grow up, aren't there either because there isn't training for jobs and just a want for turn-key employees paid peanuts (nor is there enough of these jobs to go around.)
One of your posts was about the next generation (Generation Z) and I knew they would get the same treatment. The writer confuses them with Millennials so I would say it is a completely discredited article. Well that is besides each generation becomes more entitled, something we have seen for generations. I mean even Socrates stated that over 2300 years ago.
That was actually my mistake not the authors. He was specifically talking about generation Z and not Y. I included that article to illustrate the degradation of each successive generation. Meaning although Millennial’s are bashed now, Z's will be worse. That was my point from the onset. Historically, after a country reached its peak, each subsequent generation has almost always been inferior to the previous generations. The USA has been the same. If today was 1990 I would have said X'ers is the worst generation because at that time, that would hold true. Unfortunately today we are the worst generation, in terms of our traits and skills we possess. I just forgot to include that paragraph explaining that particular link because I'm juggling doing my work and posting on here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk
One point in closing is the idea of kids that never grow up that was brought up a 2008 60 Minutes piece. Economic factors don't exactly allow for it. Think about it, the cost of rent relative to wages, is higher than ever so they either move in together or move back in with their parents. This give millennials spending money that they spend for whatever (vacations, video games, comic-con tickets, wrestling, ect.) The jobs that require millennials to grow up, aren't there either because there isn't training for jobs and just a want for turn-key employees paid peanuts (nor is there enough of these jobs to go around.)
What you wrote above is completely true. The reasons you mentioned are some of the primary the reasons why we haven't grown up. However, our lack of willingness to grow has a lot to do with the personality traits we possess. Although our elders are responsible for us turning out this way, we are responsible for continuing to act this way. For example, if a serial killer can prove that he became the way he is because of a bad childhood; does that negate the fact that he still turned out to be a serial killer? No, because at the end of the day he CHOSE to kill. He had the freedom to choose not to kill.
Just like millennials have a choice to change our ways to become better. Hopefully, most choose to wake up from their self-delusion and change. Though from my experience with people from my age group I don’t have much hope. This is why I never argued the point of causation in regards to millennials. I'm just stating what we are, regardless of what caused us to become that way.
Over the last few years of real life and reading these threads the biggest problems I see with Generation Y is that they cannot take criticism, they are always looking for someone else to blame, they all believe in this work life balance crap from the start of their careers, and many want to work on a consensus with the group making the decision to avoid personal responsibility. I just do not see that working out for them long term in the real world, but we shall see over the next few years.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
I think you meant "succeeding" rather than "preceding," but your point is particularly significant in this case because the Boomer generation had been born into an economic period unprecedented in human history. From the 1940s to the 1970s, the United States held absolute global industrial supremacy because in the aftermath of WWII, all competitors had been completely smashed and the US was left more industrially powerful than ever. All the world desperately needed industrial goods to rebuild, and the US was practically the sole supplier.
Great post. I wish more people understood this. The period was an anomaly. WWII destroyed the capacity of most of Europe and a huge chunk of the globe walled itself off from trade. We were fully geared up for war time production and research and just switched over into producing other items. We couldn't help but succeed and become fabulously wealthy.
Now we're getting back to reality. The idea that a man could go work 40hrs a week in a factory, buy a house and support a wife and two kids, and often have a summer cottage up on a lake as well... well it should be obvious that this isn't reasonable.
I like working in an office and Im in my 20s, it gives me that "corporate stooge" vibe, I like it
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What I was referring to in regards to history and the decline of succeeding generations was tied in with the economy. I wasn’t saying that Y’s negative traits is the only reason why the USA will continue to decline; I was saying that it is one of the reasons among many. The USA peaked as an economic powerhouse in the period you stated. This helped previous generations thrive. 
