Employability of For-Profit Degrees (best, college, exam, experience)

[L210]

Originally Posted by mkpunk

That is a laughable total attendance cost, that should be just with books added. I've got it down to 150 or so by using as many cheap sources as possible but it isn't always a possibility especially with new books or the loose-leaf books that have became more common the last few years.

You don't think a $1240 allowance is enough for books? I have rarely paid more than $100 per book. It's not that hard to limit yourself to $500 per semester, but you can still get much lower than that by buying used and/or renting.

Edit: I see the confusion. The $13k is for non-tuition expenses. So, the total cost of attendance is over $23k. It's still not anywhere near $40k.

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by L210

You don't think a $1240 allowance is enough for books? I have rarely paid more than $100 per book. It's not that hard to limit yourself to $500 per semester, but you can still get much lower than that by buying used and/or renting.

Edit: I see the confusion. The $13k is for non-tuition expenses. So, the total cost of attendance is over $23k. It's still not anywhere near $40k.

Renting is an option that sometimes pays off, sometimes didn't and I've used half, Amazon or even the school book store. I would price the different options to try and get the cheapest books and sometimes it still was 100 or so for the book sometimes especially on special editions, social packs for course content and of course the new issues of the book with no used our rental options available. Some semesters I've gone under 200, other over. All depends on the supply of books from sellers and renters, the issuing of new editions, course packs and all that.

I am not questioning the cost being greater than 40K, unless you talk about the private schools.

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by timberline742

First, I agree with you 100%. That said, the students going to Walden, UPhoenix, etc are the caliber of student that is going to get into decent private schools or flagship state schools, or even second tier state schools. So I think it is a bit of an unjust dichotomy. I think they're really at the community college level academically for the most part, atleast for undergrad.

Which is sad. Because they feel they are getting a college education... but they are only getting a community college education... which is really just an extension of high school.

Many employers distinguish the difference between a diploma holder and an educated person.

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by mdovell

And why would that be given the numbers are so high?

I've never seen someone treated poorly by attending a community college first and frankly the classes are going to be a bit of the same. Few professors will cling to just one institution. Tenure sure but tenure doesn't mean exclusive rights.

Tradition can be used to mean anything. Growing up I used to have a neighbor that would kick down anothers fence (it was practically large rotting sticks) . Last time I saw him 20+ years ago he tried to say that it was "tradition".

Which numbers specifically? Can you please clarify your question?

The classes may or may not be the same. I've taught at community colleges and my experience has been greatly different than when I teach at a traditional institution. First, the biggest difference is that community colleges use only one textbook for each class. What kind of education is that? Certainly not college education. Also, community colleges focus primarily on classroom contact. That's vastly different than a traditional college where majority of the learning is from working with professors, PhD students and researchers outside of the classroom. College learning comes from the research and publishings that happen outside of the classroom. Classwork is just the basic foundation that enables you to learn outside of the classroom.

By traditional college, I mean one that provides a college education.

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by concept_fusion

Not true. Many people go a year or two at community college, before transferring to a 4 year. It saves a lot of money and helps in getting general education requirements (if planned right) completed. And it's ultimately the same level of prestige at the end of the day.

I said that if someone just cares about the piece of paper, then fine, go to community college and transfer. But if you care about getting a college education, then you'd be ill-advised to attend community college.

If you're interested in prestige, as you indicate, then attending a community college is shooting yourself in the foot. My university does not accept transfers at all... from any 2 or 4 year school. Many other prestigious schools, such as Harvard and Yale, have near impossible transfer admissions. It's much easier to get direct admission to prestigious schools than it is to transfer in.

Prestige does matter in terms of employability. But so does education.

[changeisdue]

[riaelise]

Originally Posted by NJBest

I said that if someone just cares about the piece of paper, then fine, go to community college and transfer. But if you care about getting a college education, then you'd be ill-advised to attend community college.

If you're interested in prestige, as you indicate, then attending a community college is shooting yourself in the foot. My university does not accept transfers at all... from any 2 or 4 year school. Many other prestigious schools, such as Harvard and Yale, have near impossible transfer admissions. It's much easier to get direct admission to prestigious schools than it is to transfer in.

Prestige does matter in terms of employability. But so does education.

And I said that for many, community college can be the most economical. Nothing to do with grades. Here, UT Austin accepts many top of the line ACC students. Also, here UT carries more prestige...there are far more UT grads in the local job market.

If you work your ass off at a community college, you can advance. And if it isn't at your alma mater, then it doesn't matter. There are those schools that will grant admission, especially good state schools. Everyone's life path is different and your advice really isn't helpful advice at all.

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by jane_sm1th73

Disagree. I don't know your age cohort, but have you taken a look at tuition + fees lately? And the bind that taking on debt for full tuition and fees puts young people into?

I attended college not to long ago. Yes, I've kept an eye on tuitions. They are returning back to the norm after several years of artificially low tuition pricing.

Originally Posted by jane_sm1th73

Many states' universities (Virginia is one) have a partnering program with their CCs. If you enroll in a program of study and stick to it faithfully, and graduate with an xyz GPA (depends on the school, the better the school the higher the required GPA, as in high 3s, like 3.6), Community Colleges offer guaranteed acceptance.

The problem with those programs is that it encourages students to take classes at CCs while forgoing a college education for the first two years. CCs rarely have research opportunities and never participate in publishing and thesis. They also rarely have the top professors in their respective fields. It's a great example of you getting what you paid for.

If you just want the piece of paper, then CCs are a great way to lead into a 4-year program. If you want an education, they are not.

Originally Posted by jane_sm1th73

You can't wing it - it is a specific course of study and there are no mulligans. That is to say, you can't "try it out" for a couple of courses, get "Ds", and hope to recover - those Ds follow you forever at that community college and threaten your chances of using that A.S. or A.A. as an entry point to a B.S. or B.A. from a public four year school. You will need to start over in another CC system with a clean slate. Or you can take the courses over and get As. There may be a requirement for a cumulative average as well as individual course grade requirements.

What about the remaining 80% of college learning? Grades only reflect on classroom work which is only about 20% of the college learning process. It leaves out interacting with professors and PhD students to learn about a field, participate in research, contribute to publishings and debate with the best in the field that you are studying.

Originally Posted by jane_sm1th73

The CC courses cost (in my state) a quarter of what the public universities cost per credit hour. That is a real benefit, down the line, from the standpoint of avoiding staggering debt.

I'll give you that, it helps avoid debt. But you can also avoid debt at a good quality 4-year school by working hard in high school and obtaining funding. That way, you don't have to sacrifice the quality of education to save money.

Originally Posted by jane_sm1th73

If you are going for a B.S. or a B.A., you get the same diploma as anybody else who went to the public school for four years. Nobody knows where you went for the first two years. The down side is that it seems to be evident to most students who the CC grads are - they missed two years of learning the academic polish, gained from writing all those papers and labs, and debating points rigorously with a community of peers. In the end though, everybody graduates with the same degree. Personally, if I'm saving $20K/yr., I don't care what people think of me.

As I said before, if you're in it for the paper, then a CC will help you get there. Many (and I'd hope most) college students go to college for a college education. It's about graduating with a college education. Not about a degree.

Again, you could have had the same result, with an education, if you had attended a high quality private school with a big endowment.

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by mkpunk

The for-profits have brought good gains. No doubt about it. There has been an increase in enrollment in for-profits along with other more "traditional colleges."

I've found community college is basically the same as for-profits particularly in 000, 100 and even 200 level courses to an extent. That is high school all over again, even with the attitudes towards the classes. Many just don't care. The difference here is perhaps for-profits will move students through.

I still stand that if you are student who is serious and is going for real skills like computer repairs, you should be fine. That is unless you need the quick degree for a promotion.

I agree with most of this. CCs are great at offering job-ready skills. That's what they were initially intended for and that's what they do well.

What's been happening recently, is that states have been selling that CCs prepare you to obtain a BS/BA. This is where the CC scam comes in. Students believe they are getting a college education on the cheap, but all they are doing is getting a glorified high school experience.

[NJBest]

Originally Posted by 04blackmaxx

Then its strange today Psych is listed on all "useless majors" lists

Those lists are based off of outdated data. Just take a look at the number of Psych degree holders that software companies are hiring (led by companies like Microsoft, Google, Apple, Yahoo, WSJ), etc. And it's not limited to software, look at companies like Ford, VW, and SwissGear.

All you have to do is look at how many unemployed recent Psych grads there are from the top psych schools (Stanfard, Harvard, Yale, etc.) to realize that it's a hot field right now.