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It's a conspiracy between employers and universities in order to pad the pockets of universities. Take a look at a university's website some day and look at the majors. Most of them are worthless, useless majors that prepare you for jobs where those jobs could easily be learned through on the job training. One good example is a marketing major. Seriously?? You really need to pay a university $50,000 to teach you about marketing? It's not rocket science. And you could go on and on about this with the majority of majors out there.
Maybe I have an aptitude for those things but I still don't wee what's so demanding that requires a MLS.
I have a Master's in another field and am a writer/editor/communicator by trade, so I'm constantly researching, interviewing others and cataloging.
And I'm not saying all you need to do is know how to file, alphabetize and Google. But for ME nothing about being a librarian would be that hard. Any good office manager with any amount of decent experience and problem solving skilld knows how to do most of those things listed above. It's not rocket science. It's actually a job I think I'd enjoy doing, and thought of doing at one point.
Librarians, don't take it personally. MOST jobs aren't that hard and don't take formal education.
To be fair, most jobs can be taught from one person to another, or one can be trained to do a job.
Now, granted a person may need a certain level of basic (or advanced) GENERAL education (or knowledge) to be CAPABLE of being trained at a certain level, and able to 'pick up' the skills and abilities to do the job fairly quickly and within a reasonable time.
Kinda what I said above... much of what we do could be learned eventually (on the job), but it would be a very long and wasteful learning curve. The libraries would waste more money training, and having a useless "still learning" librarian hanging around, then we'd spend getting that 2-year degree. My MLIS was earned at a state school, and reasonably cheap compared to some Master's programs. I also did a yearlong internship, which was an immense help in preparing me for the job. Once I was done and MLIS-ed up, they basically just threw me into the fire at my first job! Actually didn't go well at first, so even with the degree it was a learning curve; been a librarian for almost 7 years now, so I've got the hang of things now. LOL
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(You should know how to spell and write well to be a librarian, or have SOME aptitude for science to be a doctor, etc)
We should know how to spell & write? Well, one would think ANY job (outside of purely labor-based jobs) should require that! Actually irrelevant to what we do, and my old boss was a horrible speller... she grew up in a non-English-speaking household, and always had ME proofread her emails, documents, etc, before sending them.
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I loved working in the library when I was in school and always loved books and I'm curious and love looking things up, and 'referencing' things. No insult to librarians -- but it's not that hard (for me anyway). But then most things aren't that difficult for anyone if you have an aptitude for it.
I've seen people who ask about where how to find out a given people of information. Is it THAT hard to know how to look something up? But people you'd think would know better -- seem to have no idea where to start.
We often say that anyone can type a query into Google, but a reference librarian can tell you which hits are GOOD ones. Just go into the P&OC forum, and see if you can analyze the sources people pull out... usually a fair percentage are bogus, biased, and/or ancient.
But again, that is just a small part of what we do! I rarely get full-blown reference questions these days, and probably spend more time (at the public reference desk) assisting patrons in USING the technology. So yeah, the job of a librarian has shifted from finding to guiding in recent years - if that makes sense. For example, tonight I helped one patron with setting up a new email account, and another with printing something from GMail. I also teach people how to use eReaders, and have even given workshops on downloading eResources. Not everyone is tech-savvy, not everyone can afford the technology and/or classes, and even those who can still appreciate our guidance.
I have an honest question gizmo. Is there an undergrad degree in library science available? Is that required to enter a master's program? If not, what kind of undergrad degree would you need?
There might be one or two BA/BS degrees in library science out there, but they are rare and not required... so you can have an undergraduate degree in literally anything, since the MLIS program is completely specialized and separate from everything else. Most commonly, however, you'll find that we have degrees in English lit (my BA), History, Philosophy, and other subjects along those lines. If someone were considering the MLIS, I would instruct them to focus on English and History - as those are probably most relevant & useful to what we do.
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Are the people at the reference desk fully qualified "librarians" or is there maybe one or two who oversee other employees?
In most libraries you MUST be a real librarian to sit at the reference desk. The only exceptions are if you have senior library assistants, which my system does not, or if it's such a rural area they can't be picky. Most of my clerks are perfectly capable of answering what we call first-level reference (i.e. do you have a book on India), but they'll still send them my way unless I'm too busy or on break.
Maybe I have an aptitude for those things but I still don't wee what's so demanding that requires a MLS.
I have a Master's in another field and am a writer/editor/communicator by trade, so I'm constantly researching, interviewing others and cataloging.
And I'm not saying all you need to do is know how to file, alphabetize and Google. But for ME nothing about being a librarian would be that hard. Any good office manager with any amount of decent experience and problem solving skilld knows how to do most of those things listed above. It's not rocket science. It's actually a job I think I'd enjoy doing, and thought of doing at one point.
Librarians, don't take it personally. MOST jobs aren't that hard and don't take formal education.
I don't know what more to say, except that I guess you have to do it to understand! I'm not claiming it's the hardest job in the world, or that nobody could learn what we do on the job... I have only said it's more cost-effective and timely to have a 2-year graduate degree instead. I've learned a LOT more since actually starting in the career, but coming in with that base knowledge saved us all time & money (in training). Can't explain any better, so maybe you should come shadow me for a day?
P.S. If you were actually looking to enter the cataloging field, that really does require extensive knowledge only teachable in a classroom setting. Do you know LC Classification, Dewey, MARC, etc? I don't even know all of that, since I did the "public youth/teen services" track in grad school. Well, I do have the basics down, but not enough to do it 100% properly from scratch.
It's a conspiracy between employers and universities in order to pad the pockets of universities. Take a look at a university's website some day and look at the majors. Most of them are worthless, useless majors that prepare you for jobs where those jobs could easily be learned through on the job training. One good example is a marketing major. Seriously?? You really need to pay a university $50,000 to teach you about marketing? It's not rocket science. And you could go on and on about this with the majority of majors out there.
Once again, this has ZERO to do with our educational requirements... pretty much since the job "librarian" was invented, it has required the MLS/MLIS. So your comment, like the other who said this, is totally not related to us in any way whatsoever. Also, as I just mentioned above, our degree is cheaper than most graduate degrees.
I'm a librarian who has worked in both public and academic libraries.
I'll be the first to admit that a master's is really unnecessary for most of the kind of work that public librarians do today. In the past, public library patrons asked reference questions that would require librarians to have proficient knowledge of many print reference materials (think big, thick, heavy books) and how to find the specific information within those tomes. Today, people can answer most general reference questions themselves by doing a quick Google search.
A good knowledge of literature (adult/young adult/children's fiction and non-fiction) is still required in public libraries, though people (including kids) read far less than they used to (I won't go into how important an issue I think that is). Public librarians today spend far more time looking for DVDs and CDs for patrons than they do print materials.
However, in academic libraries, the MLS or MLIS (Master in Library and Information Science) is still valuable. In fact, many academic libraries require their librarians to have second master's degrees in the subject areas they "teach." For example, a librarian working with undergraduate and graduate engineering students may need a second masters degree in engineering, as well as the MLS/MLIS. That wasn't the case at the academic library in which I worked, but I was certainly glad to have my MLIS. Ordering library materials for college course curricula, designing and teaching research classes (a major responsibility), working with faculty and students all day across a broad range of disciplines, designing and updating electronic materials and websites, etc, are all skills that the MLIS provides.
It's not that someone without a master's cannot do the work of a librarian. They can and sometimes do, and I've worked with excellent library associates. But as other posters have said, the working world is now obsessed with academic credentials for many occupations that didn't require the same credentials in the past. I think - okay, I KNOW - that I'd make a great college instructor or K-12 teacher. I have a master's and lots of teaching experience. But without either a teaching certificate or a 2nd masters in the subject area I'd like to teach, I'm out of luck. My dad was a pharmaceutical sales representative in the 70s and 80s before becoming the national training manager at the pharmaceutical company he worked for. He had no education beyond high school. By the 90s, though, all pharmaceutical sales reps had to have at least a B.A or a B.S just to enter the industry. I know people who earn their MBAs to enter the pharma industry today.
So, dubious educational requirements don't only exist in library land. But I do think that instead of the requirement for a master's, academic training for librarians could perhaps be a 4-year, specialized degree program, much like the pharmacy degree for pharmacists.
Last edited by newdixiegirl; 12-30-2013 at 10:41 PM..
I didn't figure out the difference between being a degree-holding librarian and who worked the service desk/counter until rather late in life. Granted this would depend on specific location but the service counter could be comparable to working a retail cash register. Librarians would work reference and acquisitions and occasionally cover the service desk.
The internet/online info has probably really livened up the curriculum for LibSci.
I do think there is a small degree of "conspiracy/closing the ranks" with the library science credential.
Maybe I have an aptitude for those things but I still don't wee what's so demanding that requires a MLS.
I have a Master's in another field and am a writer/editor/communicator by trade, so I'm constantly researching, interviewing others and cataloging.
And I'm not saying all you need to do is know how to file, alphabetize and Google. But for ME nothing about being a librarian would be that hard. Any good office manager with any amount of decent experience and problem solving skilld knows how to do most of those things listed above. It's not rocket science. It's actually a job I think I'd enjoy doing, and thought of doing at one point.
Librarians, don't take it personally. MOST jobs aren't that hard and don't take formal education.
I don't take it at all personally rdflk. I think you probably could be a good librarian without an MLS/MLIS, but that it because you are already someone with, I assume, a broad, liberal education, and who is also well-read, inquisitive, loves to learn and research, is a good writer and communicator, and, MOST IMPORTANTLY, likes to work with and help people.
I'm a librarian who has worked in both public and academic libraries.
I'll be the first to admit that a master's is really unnecessary for most of the kind of work that public librarians do today. In the past, public library patrons asked reference questions that would require librarians to have proficient knowledge of many print reference materials (think big, thick, heavy books) and how to find the specific information within those tomes. Today, people can answer most general reference questions themselves by doing a quick Google search.
A good knowledge of literature (adult/young adult/children's fiction and non-fiction) is still required in public libraries, though people (including kids) read far less than they used to (I won't go into how important an issue I think that is). Public librarians today spend far more time looking for DVDs and CDs for patrons than they do print materials.
Some of this is true, and on a daily basis I don't do much that would require extensive education... but the overall requirements of my job, and what I am expected to know, were mostly learned in library school. The things I've learned on the job are quite different - like conducting an effective reference interview, dealing with "problem patrons," maintaining a collection, and managing a book budget. All in all I don't feel my degree was a waste of time/money, and without that background knowledge I'd have struggled much harder & longer once I started working.
A lot of what you said is also dependent upon the specific neighborhood, and thus the needs of your patrons. I've worked in a variety of places now, from small towns to big cities, and with literally every demographic base you could imagine... each of these libraries had their own challenges, along with their own common tasks.
For example: When I worked in an agricultural town with mostly low-income Spanish speakers, I spent much of my time assisting patrons with job/school applications, running ESL programs, guiding people to local services, outreach, and maintaining a collection with a TINY budget. Now I'm in a high-income suburban neighborhood, where I do more reader's advisory (visit my branch if you want to find readers!), eResource training, cultural/literary programs, and quite honestly, socializing with lonely seniors. So your comments do hold some truth, but not for EVERY public library or librarian.
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