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Is it ever considered acceptable to approach a business owner about a job position and to offer to negotiate hours, wages, and benefits with the sole purpose of trying to get that job no matter what?
I really, really, really want to work at a particular local small business where I know the owner. We had talked about me working there before he got the place up and running a few years ago, but nothing ever came of it. He had indicated at least twice that he was interested in hiring me and I submitted my resume and all that, but I never heard back from him about it. I still go and do business there (they offer services I use) but it bothers me that they chose some clueless idiot (yes, really) over me. I suspect this other person was hired because they have experience and I don't, even though this person obviously (to me) knows less than I do. I cannot believe how stupid they are. I believe that this owner still might be interested in hiring me, but he can't because he can't afford to, yet. I'm not sure, I'm just going off of things he's said to me.
Anyway... Since I really want this job, and am well acquainted with the owner, can I negotiate a job position?
For example: Because I trust this guy and really want this job, I am willing to work a full-time position at part-time wages for 6-12 months as long as I get the following: A) I get health and dental insurance, B) I get enough money to pay for the insurance, C) Get enough money to cover job related taxes (my household gets disability tax relief, if I get a job then we don't get the tax relief and I will be required by family to pay the difference), D) get free and/or discounted services. The way I figure it, if I get free services (or even discounted) it will make it all worth it because I use these services a lot. There are plenty of social benefits I would get working at this place as well. For the average person, this would probably be a bad opportunity, but for me it would be a dream come true.
I just don't know if I would be overstepping any bounds by asking about a job position and offering to negotiate wages etc. to get the job. Although I must say that I wouldn't have the nerve to do this with anyone else. I just feel like this guy is such a rebellious person that he's not going to care how wacky this whole thing seems.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Working full-time at part time wages could be a legal problem for the owner if it works out to less than minimum wage.As a small business they may not be providing benefits such as medical and dental, but as long as it's legal you can try to negotiate anything you want. If you are a customer, you should have some familiarity with them and their services and that should be an advantage to the employer.
What kind of job is this? It's possible the position is paid hourly - thus they have to pay you for all hours worked - they can't just pay you for half.
The things you are asking for basically ARE what an employee would receive (salary, insurance, employer paid SS taxes, ect). If they can't afford to hire you as a real employee...well they probably can't afford you with the things you are asking as it's the SAME THING. Keep in mind with all of this Obamacare health insurance going on, and depending on the size of this company (sounds pretty small) things are crazy for small businesses and there's a good chance this owner isn't required to offer any health insurance to any employees. He certainly can't offer it to you and not the rest.
I'm going to be honest - if the owner REALLY wanted to hire you, he would have. If it were me, I might approach the owner and ask if he has any plans to increase his staff in the near future but that's all. Approaching him with all of these demands makes you sound like a diva.
OP, go back and read your post as if you weren't the OP and think is this person being reasonable.
You're asking a lot, especially with Obamacare on the horizon.
While you might do a better job than the person hired, there are probably 50 people who would do just as good as job as you. Why should someone trying to run a business give in to all your demands(and you're pretty demanding).
This sounds like a very small business, and again with Obamacare coming a small business isn't going to be offering all you're asking for.
They also can't have you on premises and not pay you, what happens if you get injured on the job and it is during the time you're working for free.
Thanks for the help, you've all given me a new perspective, I think.
So let me change directions here a little.
I'm still hung up on why this guy mentioned he was interested in hiring me if he wasn't. Why mention it at all? Or maybe he was and changed his mind. But then months later after his business opened, he gave me a tour and showed me how some of the equipment worked and implied/inferred that I should know how it works. Then he mentions about how he's going to be hiring more people when business picks up. So it sounded like he was saying he was planning on hiring me without actually saying it. He sent me so many mixed signals. Then he never mentions anything ever again. I never mentioned anything because I felt he should have been the one to say something.
I discussed this in some other forum back when I applied for this job. It was helpful in that most everyone could somehow tell that he wasn't going to hire me, but I couldn't see that. I don't know how they did. So I guess I'm looking for a little insight or something here.
Sometimes people say things they don't mean. I wouldn't push it. Obviously if he really meant to hire you at one time, he changed his mind for some reason. I might send in a resume with a brief cover letter reminding him of your interest should he ever need you, but leave off all the negotiations. Unless an employer TELLS you something is negotiable, it's probably not, and it's not your place to broach the subject. But more than likely, I'd look elsewhere.
While you might do a better job than the person hired, there are probably 50 people who would do just as good as job as you. Why should someone trying to run a business give in to all your demands(and you're pretty demanding).
Something about this statement kind of bothered me to the point where I felt I needed to respond to it. Please correct me if my way of thinking is wrong, because I'm so inexperienced that I might be completely wrong.
Wouldn't a small business owner be better off hiring someone like me who is willing to temporarily work a full-time position for part-time wages then to hire someone and have to pay them in full for however many hours they work? They'd be getting a better deal hiring me. I don't think my "demands" are all that demanding compared to what anyone else would be getting. I'd still be getting less and working more than anyone else there, except the owner.
it bothers me that they chose some clueless idiot (yes, really) over me. I suspect this other person was hired because they have experience and I don't, even though this person obviously (to me) knows less than I do. I cannot believe how stupid they are.
Yet this is the person you want to work for so badly?
Something about this statement kind of bothered me to the point where I felt I needed to respond to it. Please correct me if my way of thinking is wrong, because I'm so inexperienced that I might be completely wrong.
Wouldn't a small business owner be better off hiring someone like me who is willing to temporarily work a full-time position for part-time wages then to hire someone and have to pay them in full for however many hours they work? They'd be getting a better deal hiring me. I don't think my "demands" are all that demanding compared to what anyone else would be getting. I'd still be getting less and working more than anyone else there, except the owner.
You're missing the legality of that. Legally he CAN'T have you work FT and only pay you PT. For all you know the other staff is only part time as well. Keep in mind, he could hire staff at part time...say 64 hrs per pay period or something - but employees can still work up to 40 hrs a week without getting overtime (they do still get paid for every hour worked). I strongly suspect this is a position that is paid hourly - therefore the owner HAS to pay at least minimum wage for EVERY hour worked. He can't just pay you for part of them.
Here's what it boils down to: He's just not that interested in you. If he wanted to hire you, he would. If he 'meant' that in the future he wants to hire you, that's what he would say. And really, at this point, why would you want to work for someone who isn't jumping at the idea of hiring you? It's really best if you put your energy into finding a new opportunity where both parties are mutually interested.
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