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Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,699 posts, read 81,529,753 times
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I cannot buy any argument that people working at McDonald's and the like have increased productivity over 20-30 years ago, in fact they do less. They used to have to know the prices and key them in to a register accurately, and to make accurate change. Now it's just hit a picture of the item, and the amount tendered, and it tells them how much change to give.The same goes for retail workers and restaurant waitstaff. There jobs have become easier but productivity remains the same. Actually, worse considering the time we spend waiting in lines at stores for slow clerks.
An order of fries would cost $6 and there would be 40% unemployment within weeks. Many small business owners would close their doors before they'd go broke paying higher wages than they could possibly afford.
Easy solution: pass meaningful, practical legislation banning all of the above practices, so that businesses cannot circumvent or run around a minimum wage increase in real wages, for the average, everyday worker
Btw, I applaud Senator Warren's efforts -- this is something that is at least several decades overdue!
The point is that she is not asking for the minimum wage to be that high. She's saying that if employers were paying the same share of profits that they did in 1960, that's what the minimum wage would be. Companies are making bigger and bigger profits per employee than they used to. People are working harder and being more productive and not getting anything more for it.
I'm not sure how asking for a wage equal to your productivity is the same as asking to be pampered your whole life?
Easy solution: pass meaningful, practical legislation banning all of the above practices, so that businesses cannot circumvent a minimum wage increase in real wages, for the average, everyday worker
Btw, I applaud Senator Warren's efforts -- this is something that is at least several decades overdue!
This might be the dumbest thing I have read in a while. If I own a business and can't make money off of an employee, why the hell would I hire them? So then I simply fire the employee and invest more in automation. Do you seriously want a policy that will make unemployment skyrocket right now?
It is only rhetorical. Not a feasible at all. Then we would be buying $10 gallon of milk, $9 a gallon gasoline, $9 loaf of bread. Most small business will close down or downsize most of their employees. Making one do the work of many.
But why are price increases always thought of as inevitable, when a minimum wage increase discussion comes up?
There should be laws that prevent this sort of thing from occurring in the first place, that would prevent businesses from simply "passing the buck" and offloading the costs, onto the average worker...
This might be the dumbest thing I have read in a while. If I own a business and can't make money off of an employee, why the hell would I hire them? So then I simply fire the employee and invest more in automation. Do you seriously want a policy that will make unemployment skyrocket right now?
There is a big difference between "making money off of an employee", and nickeling-and-diming the employee to such an extent that we have the situation that we have right now: a 300% increase in standard of living for company CEO's and executives since the 1970's, and stagnation in non-inflation adjusted real wages for the average worker.
No one is saying that for-profit companies should not be making money. But one approach to worker compensation is simple fairness and just compensation for employee services rendered, the other is nothing but raw greed...
Last edited by Phoenix2017; 03-22-2013 at 07:56 AM..
Reason: Adds
But why are price increases always thought of as inevitable, when a minimum wage increase discussion comes up?
There should be laws that prevent this sort of thing from occurring in the first place, that would prevent businesses from simply "passing the buck" and offloading the costs, onto the average worker...
It's a tricky suggestion you're making. Not least because people are inherently selfish: Rich, poor, politically powerful or invisible, people have a tendency to abuse the rules: When power is concentrated in the hands of a wealthy oligarchy, you get what we have now. When power is concentrated in the hands of government, you have tyranny. When power is concentrated in the hands of rule-by-majority, you get mob rule.
Power vacuums are always filled. If government maintains a strict control of production, wages and costs, you stultify business - And power switches to those in government. Those with power will tend to make beneficial laws for those who support them and non-beneficial laws for those who oppose them.
What you're saying isn't wrong, but there are a lot of complex interactions to consider: Remember that when you provide government with any power, you are providing every iteration of government from that point on with that power. If a corrupt government comes along(And they will. It's inevitably human nature), they will abuse the powers given to them.
To maintain our freedoms, it requires a delicate balance of powers.
There is a big difference between "making money off of an employee", and nickeling-and-diming the employee to such an extent that we have the situation that we have right now: a 300% increase in standard of living for company CEO's and executives since the 1970's, and stagnation in non-inflation adjusted real wages for the average worker.
No one is saying that for-profit companies should not be making money. But one approach to worker compensation is simple fairness and just compensation for employee services rendered, the other is nothing but raw greed...
The purchasing power of the average worker is the same now as it always has been. Additionally, the middle class's standard of living has increased dramatically in the last half of a decade. In 1950 1/4 of Americans didn't have indoor plumbing, now having an automatic dishwasher is common for low income households. In 1960 the average family owned one car whereas now it is over two. In 1950 the average size of a home for a family of four was 800 sqft whereas now it is 2,400. The average household owns multiple computers, multiple TVs, takes vacations every year, and works less hours than ever before in the history of America (38.5 average hours in 1964 vs 33 hours today, when excluding the unemployed, youth, and retirees).
In short, the middle class today lives an unbelievably good lifestyle while working less than ever in history. How is that 'stagnant'? This sounds like nothing but raw greed on your part.
If you want a better wage, get out there and prove you are worth it. No one owes you a thing. You should only be paid what you can prove to an employer you are worth. You want more money? Turn off the TV at night and study up on relevant skills.
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