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18°C/65°F for the coldest month is Koppen's boundary between tropical and subtropical. Yes, parts of Vietnam and northern India fall under subtropical under this system.
You misinterpreted the point. Under "this" system, 95% of Southeast Asia and India would fall outside of the tropics, not just parts of Vietnam and Northern India. Here's a city in southern India. Hyderabad, India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Anyone dare to say it's not tropical???
You misinterpreted the point. Under "this" system, 95% of Southeast Asia and India would fall outside of the tropics, not just parts of Vietnam and Northern India. Here's a city in southern India. Hyderabad, India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. Anyone dare to say it's not tropical???
Check the numbers. Its coldest month is above 18°C (21.7°C).
Why can't tropical climates have frost? This is the 1 billion dollar question to which I am dying to hear an answer. I think warmth lovers are more fixated on frost than cold lovers. What's wrong with frost? If subarctic climates like Yakutsk and Tiksi are allowed to have 90F+ heat in the summer, why can't the tropical climates get frost? If 93F doesn't disqualify Yakutsk from being subarctic, how can 32F disqualify a tropical climate from being tropical? Someone explains the double standard here.
You are incorrect. If you use 65F as the cutting point for tropical, then most of Southeast Asia would fall under subtropical. The tropics according to you would comprise of only tiny area of the world. Even Singapore has many sites that feature below 65F average for coldest month.
Hue city in central Vietnam. Inland southeast Asia gets significantly colder. Hu
I don’t have all the numbers in front of me at the moment…but I would guess you are incorrect:
If by “most of Southeast Asia” you mean far southern Japan, south China, and parts of Taiwan…then they ARE subtropical climates, not tropical. For example Hong Kong has a cold month mean of 61 F.
Tropical climates commence just below Hong Kong and near extreme south China (Hainan Island is tropical). From there all climates in Vietnam have a cold month mean above 65 F – unless they are at elevation. In India, the subtropical/tropical line runs through far northern India I think. I tend to doubt that anywhere in Singapore has a cold month mean temp below 65 F (again unless at elevation).
Here is a map; The lines are rough, but you get the idea; You can see the C (subtropical) and A (tropical) line run just below/along extreme South China. The line looks a little high in northern India (Delhi for example is not tropical). You can also see that the A/C line just passes into extreme south Florida. No climates (unless at elevation) below the A/C line EVER have a frost/freeze as well, this is where both Koppen AND Trewartha placed the A or tropical climates:
Why can't tropical climates have frost? This is the 1 billion dollar question to which I am dying to hear an answer. I think warmth lovers are more fixated on frost than cold lovers. What's wrong with frost? If subarctic climates like Yakutsk and Tiksi are allowed to have 90F+ heat in the summer, why can't the tropical climates get frost? If 93F doesn't disqualify Yakutsk from being subarctic, how can 32F disqualify a tropical climate from being tropical? Someone explains the double standard here.
Because, as what I call them, northerners have an idealized view of the tropics that it's always hot and sunny and clear skies 365 days a year. Everyday is "paradise" and that paradise fits in their worldview that there must be no conditions that kill off or prevent coconut palm trees from growing, basically. Even in Puerto Rico in the highland areas we have below 60°F conditions and have seen sleet come down from the sky in Aibonito, PR which is Puerto Rico's highest elevation town (1700 feet in the valley, 3000 feet in the peaks beside it). To a northerner they'll say no that's not tropical no way. Really? It's 18°N from the equator, how is that NOT tropical? I spent the first 10 years of my life living close enough to the equator to see the top of Crux and Alpha Centauri during a few months of the year, I know what I speak of
Take home point, the tropics are not what you see in the Sandals commercials or the movies. Yes it can get cold (like the Amazon in winter 2010) and the "blue skies and sunshine" last only a few months
Why can't tropical climates have frost? This is the 1 billion dollar question to which I am dying to hear an answer. I think warmth lovers are more fixated on frost than cold lovers. What's wrong with frost? If subarctic climates like Yakutsk and Tiksi are allowed to have 90F+ heat in the summer, why can't the tropical climates get frost? If 93F doesn't disqualify Yakutsk from being subarctic, how can 32F disqualify a tropical climate from being tropical? Someone explains the double standard here.
Here is the definition from the book “An Introduction to Climate” 1981:
A= Tropical climates; temperatures of the coolest month above 18C (64.5 F). When monthly temperatures average lower than 18 C, certain sensitive tropical plants and crops will not thrive. This is the realm of plants known as megatherms which need continuously high temperatures.
The humid tropics form a somewhat interrupted and irregular belt 20 to 40 degrees winde around the earth astride the equator. This belt is distinguished from all other humid climates on earth by the fact that it is constantly warm; it lacks a winter. Frost is absent. Throughout the tropical climates the temperature differences between day and night , while modest, exceeds by several times the difference between the warmest and coldest months of the year.
Both Koppen (1899) and Trewartha (1967) had the same 18 C line separating tropical from subtropical climates. I don’t think “emotion” had anything to do with it.
Because, as what I call them, northerners have an idealized view of the tropics that it's always hot and sunny and clear skies 365 days a year. Everyday is "paradise" and that paradise fits in their worldview that there must be no conditions that kill off or prevent coconut palm trees from growing, basically. Even in Puerto Rico in the highland areas we have below 60°F conditions and have seen sleet come down from the sky in Aibonito, PR which is Puerto Rico's highest elevation town (1700 feet in the valley, 3000 feet in the peaks beside it). To a northerner they'll say no that's not tropical no way. Really? It's 18°N from the equator, how is that NOT tropical? I spent the first 10 years of my life living close enough to the equator to see the top of Crux and Alpha Centauri during a few months of the year, I know what I speak of
Take home point, the tropics are not what you see in the Sandals commercials or the movies. Yes it can get cold (like the Amazon in winter 2010) and the "blue skies and sunshine" last only a few months
I actually agree with some of what you say here…esp the part about how the “tropics” are so desirable. Several times I’ve attempted gently to explain to people that in many cases (assuming one seeks just what you speak of - “warm and sunny climates)…that often climates that straddle the tropics (Hong Kong, South Florida, Brisbane,…etc) are superior to the deep tropics (Amazon, central Africa, Indonesia, …even Puerto Rico – lol). Even far southerly subtropical climates can offer a better climate than many deep tropical climates. Yet, each time they will tell me about those "cold snaps" in Hong Kong, south Florida, Brisbane...etc, and how they would only live where the temp never falls below 65 F day or night.
One of the biggest reasons is that those “blue skies and sunshine” are FAR MORE fleeting in tropical rainforest climates (Ar/Am) than in tropical savanna (Aw) or the far southerly portions of the humid subtropics (Cfa). As one works their way toward the equator from about 18/20 N/S the wet season gets longer and longer in most cases…and the dry season shorter and shorter. Yet, in many of the tropical climates above 20 N/A -which are often Aw (tropical savanna ) climates, there is 5 to 6 months of those “blue skies and sunshine” I lived in Florida and know the joys of the dry season quite well, and it is the best part about being near/but not quite in the deep tropics.
I actually agree with some of what you say here…esp the part about how the “tropics” are so desirable. Several times I’ve attempted gently to explain to people that in many cases (assuming one seeks just what you speak of - “warm and sunny climates)…that often climates that straddle the tropics (Hong Kong, South Florida, Brisbane,…etc) are superior to the deep tropics (Amazon, central Africa, Indonesia, …even Puerto Rico – lol). Even far southerly subtropical climates can offer a better climate than many deep tropical climates. Yet, each time they will tell me about those "cold snaps" in Hong Kong, south Florida, Brisbane...etc, and how they would only live where the temp never falls below 65 F day or night.
One of the biggest reasons is that those “blue skies and sunshine” are FAR MORE fleeting in tropical rainforest climates (Ar/Am) than in tropical savanna (Aw) or the far southerly portions of the humid subtropics (Cfa). As one works their way toward the equator from about 18/20 N/S the wet season gets longer and longer in most cases…and the dry season shorter and shorter. Yet, in many of the tropical climates above 20 N/A -which are often Aw (tropical savanna ) climates, there is 5 to 6 months of those “blue skies and sunshine” I lived in Florida and know the joys of the dry season quite well, and it is the best part about being near/but not quite in the deep tropics.
That's what I think too. The problem is most people visit the deep tropics during the brief dry season and think this is how a place is every month of the year. They also almost always visit the immediate coastal area where the hardiness zone is above 12b and so never experience a bit of cold like they do in the interior highlands. Where I lived it's a border line tropical monsoon and tropical rainforest climate and my city is waterlogged for 9 months of the year where for the next 36 weeks starting around March scattered thunderstorms are forecast literally everyday. It rains every single afternoon in huge downpours from March to October. That's not the image most people have of the deep tropics. The ITCZ sits on top of Puerto Rico for most of the year, unlike in Florida or Brisbane, etc. Anything between 20°N and 20°S is going to be cloudy, wet, and stormy most of the year. I happen to like that, the wet season was one of the highlights of living in the deep tropics, I hate the dry season, too sunny (by sunny I mean partly cloudy to mostly cloud afternoon skies blue dome days are extremely rare). I imagine Ponce would be sunnier since it is a borderline Aw/BSh climate.
That's what I think too. The problem is most people visit the deep tropics during the brief dry season and think this is how a place is every month of the year. They also almost always visit the immediate coastal area where the hardiness zone is above 12b and so never experience a bit of cold like they do in the interior highlands. Where I lived it's a border line tropical monsoon and tropical rainforest climate and my city is waterlogged for 9 months of the year where for the next 36 weeks starting around March scattered thunderstorms are forecast literally everyday. It rains every single afternoon in huge downpours from March to October. That's not the image most people have of the deep tropics. The ITCZ sits on top of Puerto Rico for most of the year, unlike in Florida or Brisbane, etc. Anything between 20°N and 20°S is going to be cloudy, wet, and stormy most of the year. I happen to like that, the wet season was one of the highlights of living in the deep tropics, I hate the dry season, too sunny (by sunny I mean partly cloudy to mostly cloud afternoon skies blue dome days are extremely rare). I imagine Ponce would be sunnier since it is a borderline Aw/BSh climate.
I agree with you... I think most people have that image of sunny every day of the tropics and I must admit I do like a drier tropical climate.. but frankly any tropical climate would do for me. I did live for a year in the South of China which is technically subtropical but they do have a summer monsoon. The downpours were really awesome... truly enjoyed that And of course now in Vancouver, I'm more than used to my fair share of rain... LOL
Why can't tropical climates have frost? This is the 1 billion dollar question to which I am dying to hear an answer. I think warmth lovers are more fixated on frost than cold lovers. What's wrong with frost? If subarctic climates like Yakutsk and Tiksi are allowed to have 90F+ heat in the summer, why can't the tropical climates get frost? If 93F doesn't disqualify Yakutsk from being subarctic, how can 32F disqualify a tropical climate from being tropical? Someone explains the double standard here.
Frost can kill many plants. Even in temperate zones, frost in late spring or early autumn can do serious harm to agriculture.
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