Lidl Plans First Two Stores in DC Region in Prince George's County (Baltimore: appointed, how much)

[adelphi_sky]

Originally Posted by warriorjoek

Not really excited about this.....There are already at least 4 Grocery stores that are in place within a 5 mile stretch of where this new Lidl is planned for.

Yes, this is true. But nothing for the students who may want to walk to a grocery store? Must they all hop on a bus or drive just to get a few groceries? You do know that College Park is considered a food desert. It's ironic with the FDA being so close.

Lidl is much needed for the university community.

[lukas1973]

Originally Posted by CBMD

Here's a recent piece from the Irish Times on Lidl in Ireland. It's mostly a profile piece on a young new GM, but it reveals other interesting info.......

The point I want to make is that when Aldi and Lidl start competing with each other they are very aggressive. Currently, they are the #1 & 2 retail advertisers on Irish TV.

The total population of the island is 6M about the same as Md. Lidl currently have 200 stores north & south, and are planning 50 more. I don't know the exact Aldi number, but I'd guess 150+. Both have been in Ireland for only 17 years, and are now pushing 400+ stores. Could you imagine that in Md? Not sure how many stores Aldi currently have in Md but I'd guess way less than fifty. I think Giant have something like 150 stores between Md &Va.

It's not like there were no grocery stores in Ireland before the Germans. Tesco is still the market leader, but shrinking.

The Westmeath farmer

I have checked it up. There are 34 Aldi stores in Maryland. One Aldi store for about 176,000 residents. For comparison, in Austria and Germany it's one Aldi store for about 19,000 people. If Aldi would try to reach the same density, they would need 316 stores in Maryland
So far Illinois has the highest density of Aldi stores in the U.S. One store for about 65,000 people. I think Aldi could maintain 100 stores in Maryland in the long run.
In Ireland it's one Aldi store for about 37,000 people. And one Lidl store for about 32,000 people.

There are about 38,000 grocery stores in the U.S. One store for about 8,500 people. Germany has about 28,000 grocery stores, one store for about 2,900 people.

[CBMD]

Originally Posted by lukas1973

I have checked it up. There are 34 Aldi stores in Maryland. One Aldi store for about 176,000 residents. For comparison, in Austria and Germany it's one Aldi store for about 19,000 people. If Aldi would try to reach the same density, they would need 316 stores in Maryland
So far Illinois has the highest density of Aldi stores in the U.S. One store for about 65,000 people. I think Aldi could maintain 100 stores in Maryland in the long run.
In Ireland it's one Aldi store for about 37,000 people. And one Lidl store for about 32,000 people.

There are about 38,000 grocery stores in the U.S. One store for about 8,500 people. Germany has about 28,000 grocery stores, one store for about 2,900 people.

Thanks for that, I'm surprised that Aldi even has 34 stores in Md. I guess I need to get out more.

There was one German guy with I think, two different names, who used to post on Aldi & Lidl, I suspect he got banned, but he said that small mom & pop's of 3-4K sqf are counted as grocery stores in Germany. That's about the size of a WaWa or large 7-11, so I'd be wary about that German number of one store per 2,900.

Even your US number looks high. It implies an average of 760 grocery stores per state. It depends how you define grocery store I guess. DC has a lot of corner shops, but it's still hard to buy fresh F&V plus other stuff in SE.

[lukas1973]

Originally Posted by CBMD

Thanks for that, I'm surprised that Aldi even has 34 stores in Md. I guess I need to get out more.

There was one German guy with I think, two different names, who used to post on Aldi & Lidl, I suspect he got banned, but he said that small mom & pop's of 3-4K sqf are counted as grocery stores in Germany. That's about the size of a WaWa or large 7-11, so I'd be wary about that German number of one store per 2,900.

Even your US number looks high. It implies an average of 760 grocery stores per state. It depends how you define grocery store I guess. DC has a lot of corner shops, but it's still hard to buy fresh F&V plus other stuff in SE.

According to market research insitute Nielsen:

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/n..._2014_Inet.pdf

Number of supermarkets in Germany in 2014:

Large hypermarkets (>2,500m²): 2,018
Small hypermarkets (1,000-2,499m²): 5,082
Large supermarkets (400-999m²): 4,694
Discounter: 16,169
Total: 27,963

Small supermarkets (100-399m²): 5,059

It's in my opinion a litte bit absurd to call supermarkets with a sales area of 400-999m² large. Even Germans would call a supermarket with less than maybe 600m² way too small. But those supermarkets aren't corner or convenience stores. They are normally considered full-range supermarkets, they have (albeit small) a meat and cheese service counter. And up to 15,000-20,000 different products. I don't like to shop in such stores, because I often feel cramped. A supermarket with a sales area of about 400m² is a little bit smaller than half an American Aldi store.

The number of supermarkets with a sales area of less than 1,000m² is plunging. When people go to a supermarket they demand a wider range than in the past. People normally combine shopping at discount supermarkets with shopping at nicer supermarkets with a wide variety. The number of small hypermarkets is rising. That's probably the format that most Germans today associate with the term supermarket. The number of stock keeping units in a supermarket with a sales area of about 1,000m² is about 15,000-20,000. It's now difficult to operate supermarkets with a smaller selection. But I think it's a good format for smaller villages.

I don't think that we have (in the region where I live) supermarkets with a sales area of less than 600m². But I know that they are for example quite common in small villages in Bavaria. Edeka operates about 7,500 supermarkets in Germany (one store for about 11,000 people), in southern Bavaria they operate about 1,250 stores alone. Probably one Edeka store for about 6,000 people.


I have tried to count the supermarkets in the region where I live.

Kreis Kleve / Stadt Krefeld / Stadt Düsseldorf

Population: 305,000 / 223,000 / 605,000

Discounter (600m²-1,200m²):
Aldi: 16 / 11 / 31
Lidl: 12 / 6 / 11
Netto: 22 / 13 / 28
Penny: 9 / 6 / 15
Norma: 3 / 3 / 4

Supermarkets conventional (600m²-6,000m²):
Edeka: 18 / 7 / 11
Rewe: 13 / 8 / 34
Kaisers: 0 / 4 / 24

Hypermarkets/superstores (3,000m²-12,000m²):
Kaufland: 6 / 0 / 1
Real: 1 / 2 / 2

Total: 100 / 60 / 161

People per store: 3,100 / 3,700 / 3,700

At least in Düsseldorf, there are a few other grocery stores, mostly organic or ethnic grocery stores (not sure how large they are). And there are the food departments in the basement of department stores. Maybe some of the Rewe or Kaisers stores in Düsseldorf have a sales area of less than 600m².

Here in Düsseldorf grocery stores of one and the same grocery chain are often in short walking distance:

Netto store at Rather Kreuzweg 11 and Netto store at Rather Kreuzweg 91. Distance: 550m
Aldi store at Aachener Straße 70a and Aldi store at Aachener Straße 126. Distance: 500m
Rewe store at Gumbertstraße 125 and Rewe store at Zeppelinstraße 3-7. Distance: 330m

Especially elderly people would be very upset if one of the stores would close. They often walk to the store with their rollators. For them 300m would be a long distance.


In the U.S. a food retail outlet seems to be counted as a supermarket when it has annual sales of at least $2m:

FMI | Food Marketing Institute | Supermarket Facts
• Number of U.S. supermarket stores by format, 2014 | Statistic

Supermarkets conventional: 26,487
Supercenters: 4,150
Supermarkets - limited assortment: 3,242
Supermarkets - natural/gourmet foods: 3,144
Warehouse grocery: 523
Military commissary: 170

Total: 37,716


Not sure whether all supermarkets in Germany with a sales area of 400m²-600m² have annual sales of at least €1.8m.

[CBMD]

Originally Posted by lukas1973

According to market research insitute Nielsen:

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/n..._2014_Inet.pdf

Number of supermarkets in Germany in 2014:

Large hypermarkets (>2,500m²): 2,018
Small hypermarkets (1,000-2,499m²): 5,082
Large supermarkets (400-999m²): 4,694
Discounter: 16,169
Total: 27,963

Small supermarkets (100-399m²): 5,059

It's in my opinion a litte bit absurd to call supermarkets with a sales area of 400-999m² large. Even Germans would call a supermarket with less than maybe 600m² way too small. But those supermarkets aren't corner or convenience stores. They are normally considered full-range supermarkets, they have (albeit small) a meat and cheese service counter. And up to 15,000-20,000 different products. I don't like to shop in such stores, because I often feel cramped. A supermarket with a sales area of about 400m² is a little bit smaller than half an American Aldi store.

The number of supermarkets with a sales area of less than 1,000m² is plunging. When people go to a supermarket they demand a wider range than in the past. People normally combine shopping at discount supermarkets with shopping at nicer supermarkets with a wide variety. The number of small hypermarkets is rising. That's probably the format that most Germans today associate with the term supermarket. The number of stock keeping units in a supermarket with a sales area of about 1,000m² is about 15,000-20,000. It's now difficult to operate supermarkets with a smaller selection. But I think it's a good format for smaller villages.

I don't think that we have (in the region where I live) supermarkets with a sales area of less than 600m². But I know that they are for example quite common in small villages in Bavaria. Edeka operates about 7,500 supermarkets in Germany (one store for about 11,000 people), in southern Bavaria they operate about 1,250 stores alone. Probably one Edeka store for about 6,000 people.


I have tried to count the supermarkets in the region where I live.

Kreis Kleve / Stadt Krefeld / Stadt Düsseldorf

Population: 305,000 / 223,000 / 605,000

Discounter (600m²-1,200m²):
Aldi: 16 / 11 / 31
Lidl: 12 / 6 / 11
Netto: 22 / 13 / 28
Penny: 9 / 6 / 15
Norma: 3 / 3 / 4

Supermarkets conventional (600m²-6,000m²):
Edeka: 18 / 7 / 11
Rewe: 13 / 8 / 34
Kaisers: 0 / 4 / 24

Hypermarkets/superstores (3,000m²-12,000m²):
Kaufland: 6 / 0 / 1
Real: 1 / 2 / 2

Total: 100 / 60 / 161

People per store: 3,100 / 3,700 / 3,700

At least in Düsseldorf, there are a few other grocery stores, mostly organic or ethnic grocery stores (not sure how large they are). And there are the food departments in the basement of department stores. Maybe some of the Rewe or Kaisers stores in Düsseldorf have a sales area of less than 600m².

Here in Düsseldorf grocery stores of one and the same grocery chain are often in short walking distance:

Netto store at Rather Kreuzweg 11 and Netto store at Rather Kreuzweg 91. Distance: 550m
Aldi store at Aachener Straße 70a and Aldi store at Aachener Straße 126. Distance: 500m
Rewe store at Gumbertstraße 125 and Rewe store at Zeppelinstraße 3-7. Distance: 330m

Especially elderly people would be very upset if one of the stores would close. They often walk to the store with their rollators. For them 300m would be a long distance.


In the U.S. a food retail outlet seems to be counted as a supermarket when it has annual sales of at least $2m:

FMI | Food Marketing Institute | Supermarket Facts
• Number of U.S. supermarket stores by format, 2014 | Statistic

Supermarkets conventional: 26,487
Supercenters: 4,150
Supermarkets - limited assortment: 3,242
Supermarkets - natural/gourmet foods: 3,144
Warehouse grocery: 523
Military commissary: 170

Total: 37,716


Not sure whether all supermarkets in Germany with a sales area of 400m²-600m² have annual sales of at least €1.8m.

Two quick points.

1: On the German numbers there seems to be an element of double counting? The 16,000 discounters also need space to do business and have to fall into one of the size categories identified. For Aldi and Lidl that would most likely be the large supermarket category. The discrepancy is probably because discounters are categorized by price, while all others are categorized by size.

2: I think some of those FMI numbers for US wholesale clubs might be suspect, and they are the 2nd smallest & easiest numbers to calculate, which gives rise to concern about the other numbers.

The claim that there are just 523 Warehouse grocery outlets in the US is way off. More than 100% off.

Costco, 2nd largest retailer in the US has 474.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costco

Sam's Club has 651

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costco

BJ's has 213, for a total of 1338.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BJ%27s_Wholesale_Club

[lukas1973]

[quote=CBMD;43847066]Two quick points.

1: On the German numbers there seems to be an element of double counting? The 16,000 discounters also need space to do business and have to fall into one of the size categories identified. For Aldi and Lidl that would most likely be the large supermarket category. The discrepancy is probably because discounters are categorized by price, while all others are categorized by size.

There is no double counting. Discounters are categorized by the limited assortment (it's not a full range supermarket). There is a wide variety of different supermarket / hypermarket types. Ranging from 400m² to maybe 15,000m². To distinguish between the different types they differentiate the stores by their sizes. But that doesn't make sense for discounter. They are all very similar in size.

Here is a list of the discount chains with their number of stores:

Discounter

Netto Marken-Discount: 4,246
Lidl: 3,230
Aldi Nord: 2,435
Penny: 2,276
Aldi Süd: 1,808
Norma: 1,276
NP Niedrig-Preis: 415
Netto Stavenhagen: 352
Treff 3000: 165
Total: 16,203

Supermarket / Hypermarket:
Edeka: 7,000
Rewe: 3,300
Kaisers: 400
Kaufland: 650
Real: 350
Globus: 80
Others: ???
Total: 11,780+

If you add both figures, you will get to the 28,000 stores. There is no double counting.

http://www.nielsen.com/content/dam/n..._2014_Inet.pdf

There is a nice chart about the number of supermarkets (with at least 400m² sales area) per 1m inhabitants:

Store per 1m people / share of sales in stores with less than 400m²

Norway: 482 / 18%
Austria: 451 / 9%
Denmark: 377 / 9%
Germany: 340 / 0%
Slovenia: 302
Belgium: 251 / 5%
Sweden: 246 / 8%
Italy: 237 / 22%
Finland: 227 / 20%
Netherlands: 222 / 4%
Spain: 221 / 19%
Ireland: 212 / 24%
Switzerland: 210 / 22%
France: 204 / 4%
Greece: 178 / 22%
Czech Republic: 152 / 26%
Portugal: 137 / 14%
Poland: 131 / 43%
Hungary: 129 / 31%
UK: 111 / 11%
Slovakia: 108 / 31%
Turkey: 51 / 64%

[CBMD]

Store Wars! Coming to a corner near you?

Aldi objects objects to new UK Lidl store on traffic grounds, even though traffic dept. raised no objections.

Aldi looks to stop Lidl opening new Norwich store - Politics - Eastern Daily Press

[CBMD]

Kroger is getting into the bag your own, and 25C shopping cart rental game, in markets where there is no "Kroger" banner.

Ruler Foods sells mostly Kroger Private Label. Since there are no "Kroger's" in the DC Metro area.................

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnat...s-concept.html

[adelphi_sky]

Just got back from France and saw Lidl in Paris. They have commercials too. I can't wait until they open on RT. 1. I hope the carry over some food they have from Europe. There are some items that I got used to getting during my stay over there.

[CBMD]

Both Aldi and Lidl currently sell limited amounts of clothing, mostly children's at back to school time. This is a step up, and I wonder if Lidl will use it more extensively in the US as a way to catch up on Aldi. By that I mean a greater amount of higher quality clothing in their larger stores, (as opposed to pop-ups), instead of using the space to stock more branded groceries.

Lidl the Talk of Hamburg as Discounter Invades Luxury Outpost - Bloomberg