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I won't buy a Volvo or Polestar because both are owned by Communist China.
"Communist" as a word was believed to be introduced into English by John Goodwyn Barmby in 1841 a half a century before the birth of Mao Zedong (December 26, 1893),
The Chinese Communist Party (CCP), is the founding and sole ruling party of the People's Republic of China (PRC). The CCP leads eight other legally permitted subordinate minor parties together as the United Front.
The CCP was founded in 1921, mainly by Chen Duxiu and Li Dazhao, with the help of the Far Eastern Bureau of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and Far Eastern Secretariat of the Communist International.
The party grew quickly; by 1949 the Nationalist Government of the Kuomintang (KMT) had been driven from mainland China to Taiwan after the Chinese Civil War, leading to the establishment of the People's Republic of China on 1 October 1949.
The CCP controls the country's armed forces, the People's Liberation Army (PLA).
The CCP leads an authoritarian Marxist–Leninist one-party state in China. The party is officially organized on the basis of democratic centralism, a principle conceived by Vladimir Lenin which entails open discussion of policy on the condition of unity among party members in upholding the agreed-upon decision.
Officially, the CCP is committed to communism so the explanation for China's economic reforms is that the country is in the primary stage of socialism, a developmental stage similar to the capitalist mode of production.
The Chinese economic reform was launched by reformists within the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) on December 18, 1978, during the "Boluan Fanzheng" period. The reforms went into stagnation after the military crackdown on 1989 Tiananmen Square protests, but were revived after Deng Xiaoping's Southern Tour (January 18 to February 21, 1992).
The less expensive single motor (same battery pack size) variant of the Polestar 2 has started deliveries. It has an EPA estimated 270 miles of range and starts at $45,900 and is eligible for the $7,500 federal tax credit. Given the massive wait time for its likely closest competitor, the Tesla Model 3, and the large series of price bumps they've gone through that now puts the Model 3's base price at $46,900, it would seem that this could be a pretty decent seller. I do think they should include the heat pump by default though. That can simplify their assembly lines so it's not much of an additional cost to have it as default and they can probably then think about designing it to be more integral to the vehicle's design and as part of a system of shuttling heat to and away from powertrain / battery units as well. Also nuts that Polestar has a space/store in the Twin Cities and Detroit, but not Chicago. I understand that Volvo dealers in Illinois levied a lawsuit to prevent it, but then shouldn't Polestar then try for one near-ish outside of Illinois? It's quite close to several state lines that are a lot closer than Minneapolis or Detroit are.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-24-2022 at 11:01 AM..
It's closer to being competitive in its segment of overpriced EVs helped out in no small part by Tesla going to inferior LFP batteries while simulatenously jacking up the price on the Model 3 by $10,000. Put the two together and the Polestar 2 is, while not a good deal, at least not the horrendously poor one it used to be.
The "Pilot" safety pack should mostly be standard which brings the price up to $49,100 for what is basically an electric Civic Si. Even amongst its EV compitors that's a tough sell. Material quality is a bit nicer than on the ID.4 but that's a lot more money for a FWD ungainly looking sedan imo.
Volvo doesn't release sales numbers for the Polestar so hard to say just how poorly it sells. It's in a weird space. You've got the BMW i4 comign out which is really the first entry-level luxury EV sport sedan. It will undercut that but it's more modest. FWD car, mediocre accelearation. Good handling by reputation, at least with the Ohlins/AWD. Right now that's really to me who the Polestar makes sense to. If cost isn't an issue but you don't want to drop 100-200k on a Taycan, load up Polestar 2. Get the AWD/Ohlins at a minimum and $12,000 or whatever in optional Safety/Tech/Baubles if you want them. You now have a slow Model 3 Performance that costs more with less range, slower charging, but decidedly a nicer interior and more civilized ride quality. Big ask but for the right buyer maybe that does make sense. But the loaded up Pole Star 2 is $66,000. That's dangerously close to the i4M50 which once you tick the leather seat boxes, paint, and a few options is in the lows 70k range. Maybe it undercuts it by enough but for what? It's not like it sells well now.
It's closer to being competitive in its segment of overpriced EVs helped out in no small part by Tesla going to inferior LFP batteries while simulatenously jacking up the price on the Model 3 by $10,000. Put the two together and the Polestar 2 is, while not a good deal, at least not the horrendously poor one it used to be.
The "Pilot" safety pack should mostly be standard which brings the price up to $49,100 for what is basically an electric Civic Si. Even amongst its EV compitors that's a tough sell. Material quality is a bit nicer than on the ID.4 but that's a lot more money for a FWD ungainly looking sedan imo.
Volvo doesn't release sales numbers for the Polestar so hard to say just how poorly it sells. It's in a weird space. You've got the BMW i4 comign out which is really the first entry-level luxury EV sport sedan. It will undercut that but it's more modest. FWD car, mediocre accelearation. Good handling by reputation, at least with the Ohlins/AWD. Right now that's really to me who the Polestar makes sense to. If cost isn't an issue but you don't want to drop 100-200k on a Taycan, load up Polestar 2. Get the AWD/Ohlins at a minimum and $12,000 or whatever in optional Safety/Tech/Baubles if you want them. You now have a slow Model 3 Performance that costs more with less range, slower charging, but decidedly a nicer interior and more civilized ride quality. Big ask but for the right buyer maybe that does make sense. But the loaded up Pole Star 2 is $66,000. That's dangerously close to the i4M50 which once you tick the leather seat boxes, paint, and a few options is in the lows 70k range. Maybe it undercuts it by enough but for what? It's not like it sells well now.
I understand that it's pretty pricey in regards to something like a Camry or an Accord, but not so much for its segment because it's likely that at that price point, the purchaser is able to take advantage of at least the full federal tax credit. If you take that into consideration and take a look at other FWD vehicles in its segment like the Lexus ES and its price points, then it makes a lot more sense since the full federal tax credit dips the base version below the also FWD base Lexus ES and the hybrid Lexus ES. I don't expect it to overtake the Tesla Model 3 segment leader, but I think it'll do okay for the segment considering how small of a footprint it has with the limited number of Polestar "spaces" which is probably the main restrictions on its sales along with the lack of name recognition as a new badge. It's hard to tell with supply constraints, but overall I think it's reasonable to expect that the addition of this new trim/variant will mean better Polestar 2 sales this model year compared to the previous.
The BMW i4 is a good comparison to some extent, but with a higher base price while the Taycan is a very bad comparison. Is the 4K cheaper FWD worth it though? Hard to tell, but at least there's the option. It is nice that the premium C-segment for EV sedans is expanding though from the Tesla Model 3 to the Polestar 2 with an additional option and BMW i4 as the segment's relatively neglected compared to its crossover counterpart as is the case for vehicles in general regardless of powertrain. It's kind of funny because the premium C-segment sedan is probably where EVs right now are most competitive as it's where the form factor, price, space utilization, performance and NVH expectations are probably among the best aligned with EV powertrains versus ICE powertrains, but it's also where there's a pretty small number of entries. I was trying to think of what else is available or upcoming, but all I can think of are a slew of Chinese badges like Nio and Xpeng (Polestar is owned by Geely more or less, but based in Sweden itself). I think Genesis will have something soon, and I'd expect both Audi and Mercedes to also have something in the segment. I'm curious about what Infiniti is up to as a solid sedan in this category using their new platform would probably make sense. I think the Ariya should have come out as an Infiniti from the get-go and then once they're able to scale and figure a few more things out, then roll out a Nissan version.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-25-2022 at 04:38 PM..
Without the standard safety features, no standard heat pump, heated wheel, power seats, heated rear seats, glass/pano roof, and all the blah blahs that's standard on the Model 3, it's $1,000 less. Add back in all that stuff though and it's $6,000 more. Build quality better I'm sure which certainly is worth something but it's still $6,000 more comparably equipped for a FWD that's slower, has less range, slower charging. Thanks to the $10,000 price increase on the Tesla though it's kind of competitive now. But the big price drop has been from decontenting. Which is nice. Not everone gives a crap about all that stuff so good to have the option not to buy it, but it's still a tough sell for the Polestar.
Similar deal with the other EVs. At $46,000 it's $6,000 more than an ID.4 which is around $41,000 now but comes with the standard safety tech stuff that's extra on the Polestar. The $45,000 is still cheaper, similar range and acceleration, more space and importantly is the bubble that buyers so covet rather than a frumpy looking tall 'n stubby sedan thing. Again, better build quality on the Volvo I think most buyers are going to opt for the CUV bubble over the frumpy sedan. That they get get more equipment for less bucks with it is just icing.
A loaded up Polestar 2 FWD is $57,000. Now, that does get you the leathers whereas everyone else makes you get vinyl only so definitely some value there. A Limited Ioniq 5 is $51,000 and aside from the leathers really isn't missing anything and charges much faster. Heck you can throw in the AWD and still it's cheaper.
Polestar is really going to go to the buyer that isn't so price sensitive as anywhere you turn there's better value to be had elsewhere, even in the overpriced EV space. But not to price insensitive as otherwise you enter the 100-200k Taycan territory. Right now it can capture that small segment but I suspect that the BMW i4 is really going to come along and gobble that market up. I think it will be a nicer car, certainly a more powerful one. Based on the 1/4 trap it's also one without the Mach-E's particular problem of going UNCLE UNCLE UNCLE after 5 seconds and killing all the fun. Just make sure to approach the car from the rear or get the hurling out of the way before you get in to avoid making a mess of the interior on the BMW. Whereas to me the Polestar 2 was really the EV for the buyer who was going to spec it out with Ohlins and not care so much about the fact that the car was pretty crap value, dunno... unless the i4 is a lot worse in reality than it is on paper that buyer now goes and gets the i4.
Vehicles in the premium segment are going to look pretty pricey to a lot of people. That's just how that segment works. It's also part of its reason to exist.
For what it is, the Polestar 2 is competitively priced in the premium entry level sedan segment as prices for competitors are up a bit (way up for the segment leader Tesla Model 3), the full federal tax credit of $7,500 still holds, and it's no longer necessary to purchase it laden with all sorts of features as the Launch Edition had required. Instead, things like more driver assistance, heat pumps, panoramic roof, AWD, etc. have all become options and meanwhile there's still a good slate of standard features as seen here: https://www.polestar.com/us/polestar...dard-features/
It has a base MSRP of $45,900 and that's one that doesn't change with dealer markup because Polestar's sales system is somewhat akin to Tesla's so that's the price which is pretty appealing right now with what seems to be quite a bit of dealer markup going around. There's a federal tax credit available for it worth $7,500 and various states / municipalities also have their own incentives, and it's not like Polestar would be unaware of that in putting out pricing. It's not a perfect fit as options vary and a federal tax credit isn't fully usable for everyone, but the base MSRP minus the federal tax credit puts things at $38,400. If you look at competitors in the premium compact sedan segment, the BMW 3-Series base MSRP is $41,450, the Mercedes C-Class is $43,550, the Lexus ES is $40,800, the Audi A4 $39,900, the Tesla Model 3 at $44,990, and the BMW i4 at $55,400 (also eligible for federal tax credit coming out to $47,900). It's a pricey segment considering that sedans of about this size in the non-premium segments start at the mid 20Ks.
I think its most limiting factors are that it's a new badge with little name recognition and it has a bit over a dozen Polestar "spaces" as they put it. I think what is nice about that though is these aren't quite dealerships and there is thus no haggling over surprise dealer markups. Of course, that's also put Polestar in a bit of a bind as dealership associations have gone pretty hard for lobbying against these sales models and dealerships were successful in shutting out an attempted Polestar space in Illinois. I do think with the un-bundling of a bunch of things from the Polestar 2 this year, its sales in the US are probably going to be significantly better this year than that of the previous year's. I think the 3 year lease's probably makes a great deal of sense for many as I've seen some pretty good deals and that like with purchase comes with 2 years of free charging and 3 years of LTE.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-26-2022 at 08:21 AM..
The limiting factor is the modest range, power, slower charging, FWD architecture, and short n stubby bad looks, and high price. It undercuts its closest competitor, the Model 3, by removing content. Add back in the features and it goes from 1,000 less to 6,000 more. For less range, slower, FWD, slower charging. Nicer cabin though, which is worth something. At 6,000 more it's expensive but build and material quality are worth something. To the right buyer at 6,000 it could be worth it. And not everyone really cares about options and is happy with a 46,000 Civic SI with manual cloth seats, none of the safety tech that's increasingly standard on most vehicles like lane keep, blind spot warning, emergency braking, cross traffic alert, and the stuff like adaptive cruise which is nice but not really a safety feature. All that is standard on a Civic SI at 27,500. But in a desperate attempt to get costs lower they've removed it on the Polestar 2. That will be 3,200 extra for basic safety tech features from Volvo, a brand a lot of people hold synonymous with safety, for basic stuff that's standard on a 22,000 Civic. I get Polestars desperate need to make the 2 look more competitively priced than it is but that just looks bad.
The other 4,000 for the Plus pack is take it or leave it. If you're happy with a 50k Civic SI EV with manual cloth seats it's good to have the option to not pay 4k for power seats, vinyl, heat pump (don't really need that here in coastal CA), oano roof. All standard on the Model 3 which after checking the Pilot box is 2 grand cheaper, faster, faster charging, better range, RWD. I find all that extra stuff never really worth it but if I can get it plus 2 grand back plus more range, more power, faster charging, and RWD.... I mean you really are twisting my arm there. Where do I sign up for those heated rear seats again?
Sales we won't know how poorly it sells. Polestar doesn't report sales figures in the US...although maybe if it improves they start to.
Seems pretty likely the limiting factors are the lack of name recognition and number of "spaces"--most people don't even know what Polestar is and when you go out driving one, you get stopped by people all the time asking you for details. As in, on pretty much every single trip out. If people don't even know what it is, then they aren't likely to be doing much of a comparison between its specs and other vehicles or judging value. This should be pretty obvious, but I'm glad to help those who have difficulty with thinking things through.
Polestar can do more on the name recognition side and that'll probably ratchet up a lot with the Polestar 3. There are some legal roadblocks to the opening of spaces in some parts of the US though.
The rest of what was said about its range or charging speed is a bit uninformed and probably has to do with lack of experience with EVs. Its specs for its price after federal tax credits is competitive with the premium sedan segment given that its base after federal tax credits is pretty low for the segment and generally that segment uses fairly pricey premium fuel versus fairly cheap electricity. That segment, oddly enough, also includes other FWD vehicle to compare it, too, and as stated before, it's better that there's the option in terms of sales. I did earlier link to the standard features and listed out the MSRP, but if one did a toe-to-toe on the features that were unbundled from it and add them together, it's still all around a very price competitive vehicle for its segment and now at least gives the option of not having to always by default load up on features. I know that you have just about zero experience with this vehicle and are generally pretty cranky, but maybe others don't, so I hope this helped anyone who wandered in and didn't know what to take seriously and what to dismiss.
Polestar not reporting sales doesn't mean that there aren't sales estimates. It just means you don't know how to look for these stats. It is true that estimates for the previous year are quite low. It'll be interesting to see what happens this year with more options aside from everything bundled with the AWD launch edition and with more "spaces". It had estimated sales of over 3K for its launch last year, and estimates for just the first two months of this year, which are normally slower months, are around 800 or so, so I think there's a pretty good bet that this year, especially with the options of not getting entire kitten caboodles bunded in, is going to be substantially better for sales but obviously not a market leader given the relative lack of name recognition and lack of "spaces". The power and range boosts from updates are also probably going to help. I still think though that the heat pump should be standard and they should take advantage of that to be better integrated into the system as a whole.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 03-26-2022 at 01:31 PM..
228i I guess would be the competitor. The FWD crappy one that nobody really likes. That or the Mercedes A Class. Those are 34-35k and they're not coming to the party decontented with no standard safety tech and cloth, manually adjusted seats like the Polestar 2 is at $46,000.
I don't think Volvo has the snob appeal of BMW though. Once Acura does the slappabadge on the Civic CI (Integra) that's probably the closest second tier near luxury. So yeah, since it's a poor value even in the overpriced EV space it's just a foregone conclusion that it's not price competitive gas cars. EVs never are.
Seems pretty likely the limiting factors are the lack of name recognition and number of "spaces"--most people don't even know what Polestar is and when you go out driving one, you get stopped by people all the time asking you for details. As in, on pretty much every single trip out. If people don't even know what it is, then they aren't likely to be doing much of a comparison between its specs and other vehicles or judging value. This should be pretty obvious, but I'm glad to help those who have difficulty with thinking things through.
Polestar can do more on the name recognition side and that'll probably ratchet up a lot with the Polestar 3. There are some legal roadblocks to the opening of spaces in some parts of the US though.
The rest of what was said about its range or charging speed is a bit uninformed and probably has to do with lack of experience with EVs. Its specs for its price after federal tax credits is competitive with the premium sedan segment given that its base after federal tax credits is pretty low for the segment and generally that segment uses fairly pricey premium fuel versus fairly cheap electricity. That segment, oddly enough, also includes other FWD vehicle to compare it, too, and as stated before, it's better that there's the option in terms of sales. I did earlier link to the standard features and listed out the MSRP, but if one did a toe-to-toe on the features that were unbundled from it and add them together, it's still all around a very price competitive vehicle for its segment and now at least gives the option of not having to always by default load up on features. I know that you have just about zero experience with this vehicle and are generally pretty cranky, but maybe others don't, so I hope this helped anyone who wandered in and didn't know what to take seriously and what to dismiss.
Polestar not reporting sales doesn't mean that there aren't sales estimates. It just means you don't know how to look for these stats. It is true that estimates for the previous year are quite low. It'll be interesting to see what happens this year with more options aside from everything bundled with the AWD launch edition and with more "spaces". It had estimated sales of over 3K for its launch last year, and estimates for just the first two months of this year, which are normally slower months, are around 800 or so, so I think there's a pretty good bet that this year, especially with the options of not getting entire kitten caboodles bunded in, is going to be substantially better for sales but obviously not a market leader given the relative lack of name recognition and lack of "spaces". The power and range boosts from updates are also probably going to help. I still think though that the heat pump should be standard and they should take advantage of that to be better integrated into the system as a whole.
When I see a pic of a Polestar I automatically think Volvo. To me the styling is very similar, something about the rear end.
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