May I please have advice re head gasket on Volvo S90? (rental, 2011)
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Warning: not very car- savvy, low income person ahead. I bolded the main questions, but I fear I don’t know what the main questions are.
I’m looking for any advice or comments regarding the present situation. I apologize in advance if this is long or more information than you need to know. I honestly didn’t know what to include.
Background: Purchased 1998 Volvo S90 at the end of March 2011 for 3K. Had 189K miles on it. Ran a Carfax prior to purchase. No accidents. Timing belt change in 2007. Needed car asap as had just moved back home to VA from CA.
Put two brand new tires on it, pressure cap on coolant reservoir replaced (about $300—can’t find my receipt for this). Then in June, had the power steering flushed (also new power steering fluid—Amsoil) and an oil leak fixed ($269.00). In July, the power steering rack was replaced ($506.57).
Now, for the past two weeks, coolant has been leaking underneath to the ground. At first, it wasn’t much, but by last week, I went through 4 big square containers of pre-mixed antifreeze. Today the car went to the regular mechanic. He said the head gasket is bad. It needs a new one plus timing belt. His estimate is $1400.00. He advised me not to drive the car AND that he could not work on it for 3 weeks. (I live in a small town, and he’s the one everyone goes to so he’s busy). Not only did the price of the work stun me, but I share this car with my son who drives it daily to work in a town about 45-50 minutes away (Charlottesville). He would have no way to get to work as there is no public transportation between the towns.
Basically, I am next-door to broke, and don’t feel as if I can possibly get another car that wouldn’t have problems so I need to have it fixed. Plus, I am under the impression that Volvos will last a long time with proper maintenance which is what I’ve been trying to give it. I know this is my call, but would appreciate any opinions in regards to keeping the car. It has 202K miles on it now.
Both my son and I called around today to various mechanics—no one else has seen the car yet. Only one guy in my immediate area said he could work on it. He said the timing belt did not need to be changed. He said he would do the head gasket for $1100. He can do the work right away.
A guy over in Charlottesville said he’d do it and the timing belt did need to be changed, and he estimated $1200. He said he might have to do some “machine work” on it. I don’t know what this means. He can do the work right away.
I’m so confused! I read as much as I could here on the forum about head gaskets, and the impression I got is that the timing belt should be changed when the head gasket is done. Is this everyone’s consensus?
I went ahead and requested a rental car that I’m to pick up in the morning. It costs $200 a week.
If it were you, would you go to a mechanic you didn’t know in order to get the work done now avoiding mounting rental car costs or would you wait for the regular guy, incurring at least a $600 rental ($200 x 3 weeks) car bill on top of the car repair?
Thank you to anyone who read this. I appreciate whatever advice you can offer.
Warning: not very car- savvy, low income person ahead. I bolded the main questions, but I fear I don’t know what the main questions are.
I’m looking for any advice or comments regarding the present situation. I apologize in advance if this is long or more information than you need to know. I honestly didn’t know what to include.
Background: Purchased 1998 Volvo S90 at the end of March 2011 for 3K. Had 189K miles on it. Ran a Carfax prior to purchase. No accidents. Timing belt change in 2007. Needed car asap as had just moved back home to VA from CA.
Put two brand new tires on it, pressure cap on coolant reservoir replaced (about $300—can’t find my receipt for this). Then in June, had the power steering flushed (also new power steering fluid—Amsoil) and an oil leak fixed ($269.00). In July, the power steering rack was replaced ($506.57).
Now, for the past two weeks, coolant has been leaking underneath to the ground. At first, it wasn’t much, but by last week, I went through 4 big square containers of pre-mixed antifreeze. Today the car went to the regular mechanic. He said the head gasket is bad. It needs a new one plus timing belt. His estimate is $1400.00. He advised me not to drive the car AND that he could not work on it for 3 weeks. (I live in a small town, and he’s the one everyone goes to so he’s busy). Not only did the price of the work stun me, but I share this car with my son who drives it daily to work in a town about 45-50 minutes away (Charlottesville). He would have no way to get to work as there is no public transportation between the towns.
Basically, I am next-door to broke, and don’t feel as if I can possibly get another car that wouldn’t have problems so I need to have it fixed. Plus, I am under the impression that Volvos will last a long time with proper maintenance which is what I’ve been trying to give it. I know this is my call, but would appreciate any opinions in regards to keeping the car. It has 202K miles on it now.
Both my son and I called around today to various mechanics—no one else has seen the car yet. Only one guy in my immediate area said he could work on it. He said the timing belt did not need to be changed. He said he would do the head gasket for $1100. He can do the work right away.
A guy over in Charlottesville said he’d do it and the timing belt did need to be changed, and he estimated $1200. He said he might have to do some “machine work” on it. I don’t know what this means. He can do the work right away.
I’m so confused! I read as much as I could here on the forum about head gaskets, and the impression I got is that the timing belt should be changed when the head gasket is done. Is this everyone’s consensus?
I went ahead and requested a rental car that I’m to pick up in the morning. It costs $200 a week.
If it were you, would you go to a mechanic you didn’t know in order to get the work done now avoiding mounting rental car costs or would you wait for the regular guy, incurring at least a $600 rental ($200 x 3 weeks) car bill on top of the car repair?
Thank you to anyone who read this. I appreciate whatever advice you can offer.
Hey again PC. Just read this and I would like to know where the antifreeze is at underneath the car(towards the front underneath the bumper/on either side of the motor closer to the tires/way back at the firewall straight down from the bottom edge of the windshield/or right under the motor itself); hopefully it's on a level surface. I am wondering if you don't simply have a loose or busted hose somewhere. Or it could be a intake manifold leak. I don't claim to be a master mechanic, but usually a headgasket leak goes into the motor and not out. Not saying it couldn't. But from waht you have said about Mr. Craig and some other experiences I've heard about, I'm not sure. If he was so busy he can't work on it for almost another month, I wonder how close he actually looked at the motor.
The leak is huge and close to the right front tire. Really, am going through that mixed antifreeze like there's no tomorrow.
It would be such a blessing if it wasn't the head gasket. Maybe I shouldn't be telling mechanics that the head gasket needs to be replaced and simply say that there's this awful leak??? I don't know...that would require taking the car all around Charlottesville, wouldn't it? Maybe son could just go by places and talk about the leak?
Edit: I mean go by places in the rental car and talk about the leak. Sorry for confusion.
Last edited by PeppermintChapstick; 09-12-2011 at 08:49 PM..
Reason: clarity
Are you close to Harrisonburg by chance? I spoke to a friend of mine who has heard of an excellent Volvo repair shop, called Strictly Volvos on Charles Street, when she needed to have some work done on her S60 and tired of paying dealer rates. Unfortunately, she had the car repaired in Fairfax when she was visiting family, but that shop comes highly recommended to her for Central Virginia. Finding a specialized mechanic that is not the dealer is a key to keeping an older Volvo on the road without too many issues. I would definitely give them a call to see if they can help you diagnose it over the phone, and perhaps know of a reasonable towing service that could get the car to them for repair.
There are a couple of places in Charlottesville like Edgecomb's and C-ville Imports that service Swedish and German cars, but I cannot think of one that's exclusively Volvo/Saab. My friend also returns to Fairfax to have work done on her Volvo, since she combines it with regular trips to DC and NOVA. There are more good shops closer to DC, but that wouldn't help you, since I agree that you should not push the Volvo until the coolant leak is sorted out.
I hope that the issue is soon corrected for you.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
The leak is huge and close to the right front tire. Really, am going through that mixed antifreeze like there's no tomorrow.
It would be such a blessing if it wasn't the head gasket. Maybe I shouldn't be telling mechanics that the head gasket needs to be replaced and simply say that there's this awful leak??? I don't know...that would require taking the car all around Charlottesville, wouldn't it? Maybe son could just go by places and talk about the leak?
Edit: I mean go by places in the rental car and talk about the leak. Sorry for confusion.
Definitely check and see if you can figure out where the leak is coming from. Although it does sound like a head gasket leaking to the outside of the motor.
If the car is otherwise in good shape, and suits you, I would say fix it. Since the head comes off for this work, it only makes sense to replace the timing belt(s) since you are only paying for parts, the labor is part of doing the R&R of the head. If the water pump is inside the timing belt, or nearby, usually you do it too.
The head comes off and goes to a machine shop, where they pressure test it, check flatness, maybe skim-cut it to get the correct finish for best head gasket life, and put in new valve stem oil seals. This would be the time to take a hard look at the valves, although on most modern cars the valves are so hard they are fine, but everything needs to get checked out.
I think this car has an iron block and aluminum head - if so, head gasket on such a design will last 100 to maybe 250 K miles, the head expands more than the block, so there is relative movement between them and that wears the gasket out over time.
If the car is otherwise good though, this repair will have you ready to go 60K or whatever it is to the next timing belt change with just routine maintenance like oil changes till then.
The leak is huge and close to the right front tire. Really, am going through that mixed antifreeze like there's no tomorrow.
It would be such a blessing if it wasn't the head gasket. Maybe I shouldn't be telling mechanics that the head gasket needs to be replaced and simply say that there's this awful leak??? I don't know...that would require taking the car all around Charlottesville, wouldn't it? Maybe son could just go by places and talk about the leak?
Edit: I mean go by places in the rental car and talk about the leak. Sorry for confusion.
I'm not going to say it isn't the head gasket. I don't want to give you false hope, but it could also be the water pump/water pump gasket, or timing chain cover. Or even a heater hose going to the heater core. Without seeing it, it's difficult to diagnose. Leaking antifreeze literally could be coming from anywhere. I had a similar issue with my car. I was thinking it could be a head gasket. It turned out to be a leaky intake manifold gasket. Maybe you can check the engine oil. If it looks like plain oil, you might be ok. If it has a watery greenish tint, definitely head gasket, or timing chain cover gasket.
Other visual inspections you might be able to do is look to see if there is antifreeze on the motor. Or if it looks recently wet and follow it from there.
What makes me wonder though since it seems to be pooling closest to the right front tire(passenger side) is that the water pump and timing chain cover are on that side. I would mention it and get prices for the various jobs and start with one and weed out the others. Hopefully this won't turn out to be as expensive as it initially sounds.
EDIT: Okay, I had a brain fart. I just looked at a picture of this motor and it's an inline rear drive vehicle. I should have known that. So disregard my comment about water pump being on the RH side. It'll be right at the front of the motor. So, after further looks at these motors, it might be the head gasket after all. Hopefully you can get it worked on at a decent price, or have it be something totally different and cheaper. My boss has a 2000 V40 and it's FWD, so I had that on my mind until I actually looked at the specific model you have. Sorry. I would still check out everything though, like the oil etc.
Last edited by ShadowBat; 09-13-2011 at 08:13 PM..
The S80 actually is a FWD sedan, with AWD being an option. Also, the engine block is aluminum, not cast iron as the older Volvos were. The 2.9 used in the first generation S80 could be had with or without twin turbo chargers, in a 2.9 or T6 configuration.
__________________
All the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players: they have their exits and their entrances; and one man in his time plays many parts, his acts being seven ages.
~William Shakespeare (As You Like It Act II, Scene VII)
The inline 6 cylinder is very similar to the inline 5 cylinder that is on the 850/70 series.
With your S90 (aka 960) I would not suspect a head gasket if what you describe is accurate, "losing coolant like mad".
The belt needs to be changed, if it's the same as the 850's which I highly suspect, every 70k miles. In addition, at 140k, and 280k, you need to change out the hydraulic tensioner, and if you are serious about driving it, the rollers as well. Chances are this hasn't been done.
The belt, if it was changed on que at 140k, would need to be replaced at 210k anyway. A new belt is not "technically" needed for the HG job but it would be stupid to not, as a new one is about $30 (Contitech, OEM).
Has the car overheated? It it has, even if the HG wasn't blown beforehand, it might be now.
The reason for machine work on the car, is if the HG was blown, the head warps and needs to be machined flat.
The true reason is probably a bad radiator hose or oil cooler hose/seal. Head gaskets typically don't gush fluid outside of the car. I would tow to another mechanic to have them look at it. If you can take pics and post on here we can give better advice.
Volvos are great cars provided you work on them yourself. For example, a simple timing belt change is about $30 for me to do it myself. To pay a mechanic, around $250 and up. You really can't do "good mx" on a car you buy with almost 200k on it. In fact, 200k is what Volvo says is the lifespan of it's inline engines before needing to be rebuilt. My 850 is parked in my garage so I can take the engine out and put some new rings in it. I am going to keep it for a long time, but it was bought new from the dealer in 1995 by my parents.
I have to wonder if it's coming from the water pump or maybe the pipe that joins the water pump to the cylinder head. That's just a guess, but after 12 or 14 years, it could have corroded, or the gaskets may be leaking or cracked. Most head gasket leaks don't do what you are describing.
If the head gasket is the problem, I would definitely perform the timing belt service at that time, along with the tensioner and probably the water pump also. In fact, you should probably have that service done soon anyway.
FWIW, the B6304 inline 6 cylinder was introduced in 92 in the 960/S90 and is all aluminum. It's a good engine in the later years, but at 200k miles things start wearing out regardless. The early models had some really nasty problems with porous block castings, and blocks affected would eject coolant straight through the block. Those issues should have been weeded out by 95 though.
The S90 was Volvo's flagship and it costs a little (or a lot) more to work on than some of the other models which are more common and have less expensive parts. Compared to the 4 cylinder models that preceded it (i.e. 240/740/940), it was something of a maintenance queen. Good car overall, but with some fragile spots.
Everyone, I have not been ignoring all your very helpful comments. In fact, I'm printing out this page. You have all been so nice to help me especially since it must be frustrating to comment to someone whose total mechanical knowledge is how to put gas in the car and check the oil and coolant. Oh, I know the penny in the tire trick too.
The latest: I took the car around to a couple of other mechanics. The second shop had two mechanics looking it over for over two hours--I was sitting in the waiting area and watched them. Their verdict was that the problem was a "heat tube" that bad. They guessed it would be four hours of labor and $50 for the part = $450.00. They forced water into the air coolant container and, sure enough, water started leaking from this thing whatever it is. I'm sorry!!! I just am not mechanically inclined to say the least. I don't know what you consider the back or front of the engine, but this was in the back which to me is closest to the windshield. Does this make sense? I will try to find out more when I go to pick the car up.
This morning they called and said that it hadn't been as bad as they thought to get into the engine to the part and the total bill was $288.00. They even fixed my driver's side door handle that no one else in town knew how to do!
We'll see if this is really the fix. Wouldn't that be something if it is? Quoted $1400 and scared half to death and the fix is $288.00.
bmwguydc, if this doesn't fix it, I will check out the Harrisonburg shop you mentioned since they specialize in Volvos. It's not that far. Thanks very much for the rec.
wheelsup, to answer your question, no the car hasn't overheated on my watch. The mechanics asked me that too! I'm sure it would have had I not been pouring coolant in it every day, sometimes twice a day. And thank you and M3 Mitch for the info on machine work.
43north87west, I love your comment about how this model is "something of a maintenance queen." Funny...eh, but not so funny.
ShadowBat, you are the man, what can I say? Thanks for your help both on this thread and through DM.
And everyone, with your advice, yes, if after all this it does turn out to be the head gasket, I will definitely have the timing belt changed.
Will update the thread with any further developments.
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I don't know...that would require taking the car all around Charlottesville, wouldn't it? Maybe son could just go by places and talk about the leak?
