[Murrquan]

Hello! I have been lurking for a few days now, after finding these forums. A lot of interesting discussions going on!

Overview

I am currently living in northwestern Georgia. I am not "from" Georgia, and have lived all around the country (and outside the United States). I have not lived anywhere for more than five or six years. I am a male in my twenties, I have no wife or children, and I am considering moving cross-country sometime around the start of the next decade. I want to choose the place where I am most likely to be happy, and that would be the best place to raise a family.

Why I am Considering Vermont

A lot of states in the US seem ... boring. Everyone's concerned with the same things ... good schools, good jobs, proximity to work and/or college. And they have all the same fast-food restaurants and chain stores.

Vermont seems different. It seems like exactly the opposite -- a high cost of living, in exchange for intangibles like "quality of life." It sounds like there's a strong emphasis on local, organic agriculture. It also sounds like people are kind, and tolerant of those who are different (like vegetarians, in my case). I may be over-romanticizing the place, but there seem to be a lot of people who really like it for reasons that I can sympathize with, and the people who don't either don't like the winters or aren't making enough money. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Personally, I am self-employed via the Internet, and am hoping to marry someone whom I can help to homeschool our kids. Schooling and employment are not very big considerations for me, but I do worry about expenses. I am planning to rent a small but liveable house, and possibly buy sometime in the future.

My Experience with Vermont

I have been to Vermont exactly once that I can recall, for a family reunion near Leicester. It was in summer, and I vaguely remember large golden fields and lots of pollen and bees. I'm not too fond of either, but I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt. ^.^; The relatives I have living there are more or less unknown to me, even after the reunion. But I do have family there. (And in Michigan, Texas, and Georgia ... )

My Experience with Other Places

I'm currently living in Georgia, in a semi-rural area northwest of Atlanta. I do not like it very much here. Our house is poorly insulated, and is freezing cold in the winter and very hot in the summer. There is a lot of pollen, and there are a lot of bees and wasps. I am told that the local government is corrupt, and have heard it suggested that our town is a center of operations for the KKK as well. I am not black, but the locals' attitudes are foreign to me, and I've never feared for my safety as much as I have here. It seems very uncivilized. The place is also not very scenic and feels rather run-down, at least where I'm living.

Before here I lived in West Virginia for 5 or 6 years, near Clarksburg and Morgantown. I loved it. I took frequent walks through the tree-covered hills, and I loved how they looked from a distance, and how wisps of mist would wrap around them when it was overcast. I liked how pretty it was in autumn, and especially winter -- how it was just warm enough that a blanket of moist snow clung to everything, and the sky and the ground were both silvery-white.

At the same time, though, outside of its natural beauty it seemed kind of run-down and uncivilized, sort of like this part of GA. I thought the locals seemed friendly, but I saw/heard a lot of TV/radio commercials going on about how great West Virginia and the West Virginia worker were, and being suspicious of anything from out-of-state. It made me feel kind of unwelcome. But I liked the people in our church group, and I loved the Bridgeport public library -- #1 in the nation for cities of under 10,000!

Before that I lived in Utah for a couple of years. I liked how the mountains looked from a distance, and (at the time) I liked the shopping. I also liked Temple Square, especially when it was decorated for Christmas. I did not like the culture as much ... I am a Latter-Day Saint (Mormon) myself, but the congregations I've been in outside of Utah were smaller and friendlier. In Utah there were hundreds and hundreds of members, and I was just lost in the crowd. Plus they seem kind of superficial and driven to be outwardly perfect, there in the Beehive State. I could "bee" mistaken though.

Okay, last one ... perhaps my favorite place has been New Hampshire, where I lived for about five years. I lived in a city of about 20,000 called Rochester (The Lilac City!) in the southeast, in a house on the commons. I liked being able to walk to different places in town, and I loved how pretty and "New England-y" the place was. I became very proud of our city.

I got along fairly well with the people there. I went on frequent outdoor activities with our Boy Scout troop at the time, around New Hampshire and up into Maine. I often visited York beach in Maine, in the off-season, and went to fairs like the Somersworth Children's Festival. I also went down to Boston sometimes.

What I'd Like

The winters of WV, the autumns of New England, the small-town feel of New Hampshire and the public library from Bridgeport. And a partridge in a pear tree!

I want to live close to a city, but I don't want to live inside one. And I'd like to be able to go for a walk in the forests and hills outside my own house.

What I Understand is a Problem

I'm told it is freezing cold there in winter, and that it costs a lot to buy a house. I also worry that some places may be a little too tolerant for my tastes -- I don't want to be subject to public nudity!

What I Hope to Contribute

I'd like to buy organic food locally, and perhaps even raise some of my own. I'd like to participate in local and state government, being informed of the issues and maybe attending a town meeting, if there's no reason to fear for my safety like there is here. ^.^;

I try to be helpful wherever I am, and have participated in service projects as part of my Church / Scouting groups before. And I don't mind how reserved people say New Englanders are ... New Hampshire seemed normal to me, Georgia / West Virginia are kind of creepy!

I do not have a criminal record, and I'm not planning to get one anytime soon.

In Closing

Is there anything I'm not considering? Are there any places across the United States that I should be considering, but I'm not? What should I do in order to find out if the state is right for me? And what distinguishes different parts of Vermont, in terms of culture and living conditions? If you could point me to other threads that describe things, that might be helpful too, although I've done some reading already.

If anyone's still reading, many thanks in advance!

[harry chickpea]

NW of Atlanta? Yeah, you are in Klan territory. You might take a trip up closer to the Alabama/Tennessee border and get out of the heaviest of that influence. You'll find the Klan remnants in other areas of the south more spotty, with a couple of notable exceptions.

Vermont. You have to be on the lookout for that public nudity. You might be shopping and zip! Someone will take their clothes off in front of you. The nude bicylists can be a distraction as well, when they are standing on the pedals going up a hill, weaving left and right and left and right... Seriously, unless you go skinny-dipping on hot summer days, you are unlikely to find many nude Vermonters. The frostbite is just too painful and most give up the sport at an early age.

IMO, Before making any decisions on permanent residence, you should at least take a trip to Colorado, around Boulder and Golden, and another to the Pacific Northwest (Seattle area), just to see the flavor of some other areas.

Pollen and underinsulated houses are issues across the nation. The only way I was able to consider moving north from south Florida was by buying a home with R14/R38 insulation. I've lived in a number of homes and apartments, and after experiencing what good insulation will do, I would kick and scream before going back into a dwelling with just R-9 walls and single-pane windows.

A tip on bees and wasps. Unless you use a fruit scented shampoo or disturb a nest, most of them just want to go on about their own bee and wasp business. Yellowjackets and ground bees? Well those are another matter, and I have no use for those critters.
The trick to enjoying the outdoors is not to group the harmless ones in with the few bad apples.

Good luck in your search.

[c~mom]

As my family and I narrow down our search for the perfect little town in Vermont, I couldn't help but be interested in your interest to move to the beautiful state of VT too!

Different than you we have definately narrowed it down to 1 state, region, and a 2 county area, but its a lot to think of! I would seriously think about all the reasons you didn't want to live elsewhere and make sure you won't be setting yourself up for disapointment in a few years in your new community, there's a lot to be said for the comfort of a hometown (I've lived in my town for over 30 years), and this forum is a good start!
Winters are a thing that some people hate...warning winters in the Northeast can feel a little depressing after a few weeks without sunshine, and if you don't get a kick out of buzzin around in a big 4wheel drive truck or sippin hot cocoa just to keep your fingertips warm Vt and surrounding states might not be for you! However if you like to ski, skate,snowmobile, or ice fish, and you don't get grouchy about the effects of salt spray on your paint and undercarriage of your car, then by all means come join us up here! And just a note...Spring does not come after winter, it's mud season...then comes this short little tease of neon green grass and tulips for like 3 days and then we just dive on into summer, and with that comes the mosquitos! Don't want to scare you away...but the reason we come to these forums is for the TRUTH!!!! Personally I wouldn't trade the change of seasons for anything, you couldn't transplant me to Florida for 10 million dollars!!
Cost of living and quality of life...you've got that figured out fairly well, costs in Vt aren't much different from where I live in upstate NY, gas however is a bout 10 cents less per gallon then in my neck of the woods, but its probably much much cheaper where you are now! The big expenses up this way is winter, so you gotta love winter so you don't get too cranky about paying the heating bills, which are getting worse every year, and if you've got thin southern blood, you'll be crankin it your first winter or two!! LOL!! Also in the winter you might have snowplowing costs, and skiing is an expensive habit too! And your new winter wardrobe which you will need 4 different styles of coats, turtlenecks, sweaters, flannel shirt (a must have to blend with the other VT'rs) long johns and some wool socks too!When gas and oil prices go up so do the cost of groceries, and untill you have kids you really have no idea how much money a family can spend at the grocery store!!
Farm Stands and Farmers Markets are pretty abundant but a lot of them are only open may-oct! There is a lot of healthy or "green" living going on everywhere up here, and VT definately has that natural way of life thing goin for it! But don't be disturbed by the good 'ol boys huntin deer, and drinkin an ice cold brew on a 5 degree day in November, they have there own idea of livin in the northeast too! and remember there great-great grand daddy was the first "transplant" and the founder of the town, everybody comes from somewhere, but we all love VT for some of the same and different reasons, but we all love it!
And speaking of kids and family...I might be wrong, but your plans for marriage and kids and Vermont sounded very dreamy but not necessarily with an individual prospect in mind...great to dream and plan, but take it from a happily married mom, there are no set plans once you have kids and a devoted relationship If you havn't found Mrs.Perfect yet to share your dreams...just follow your dreams, if your doing what you love and living where you want to live, sooner or later you'll find eachother...and when you do your plans might change a little or a lot! Like you mentioned the homeschool thing...Mrs. Perfect might think kids have an amazing opportunity to meet new friends and have different daily experiences then either one of you could offer through homeschooling...so you might want to put the breaks on a little their single guy LOL
Also your Internet Job, some rural areas do not have high speed internet availability yet! Also cable TV is a rare luxury in some areas too!! There is always satalite, but keep in mind utility access and costs, small town private phone companies can also have a monopoly in some communities (like mine) and cell phone service can be limited in the mountains and valleys (although my verizon phone is pretty decent in NY & VT)
Don't think you have to worry about much nudity we need to keep our clothes on up here to avoid frost bite! LOL But recently found out about a very tastefully done calendar done for a community funreaiser up in Chester (Chester Calendar (broken link)) I checked it out and thought it was great to see some small town folks being tastefully risky for a community fundraiser...thats the fun openminded people of VT!! Upstate NY'rs would be in an uproar if someone tried to pull that one off!! That's just one of the reasons we are lookin to become VT'rs! upstate NY'rs can be very closed minded and cranky...not all of 'em, but there is a negative energy that I need to escape! Vermont here we come!!
Across the U.S....keep checkin out these forums, and pick up any magazine that has "living" in the title you know..."Southern Living", "Country Living", read the articles figure out what you like and don't like about the lifestyles they are advertising, they also feature different communities month to month usually, so you can get a mini tour of a town. Most towns have websites these days with links to other things in the communities, but a lot of the rural areas up here don't have very good ones, you don't really capture the community because pictures and info are so limited as there are so new to the web page technology.
And when you do find the perfect place for Mr. & Mrs. Perfect... let us all know through the forum why its so great!! Vermont is definately perfect for me and my family!! Good Luck

...I have a few websites for Vt that might help you check the state out from the comfort of your office! Even if your not looking for a job the "jobs in vermont" site can give you a feel for the needs and opportunities in different areas!
JobsInVT.com - Local Vermont jobs, careers and employment (Home)
Vermont.gov
Message For The Week
New England Showcase: Fine Homes, Land, Condominiums, and Commercial Real Estate

[Murrquan]

harry chickpea:

NW of Atlanta? Yeah, you are in Klan territory. You might take a trip up closer to the Alabama/Tennessee border and get out of the heaviest of that influence. You'll find the Klan remnants in other areas of the south more spotty, with a couple of notable exceptions.

That's what I was afraid of. One more reason to make plans to get out of here!

IMO, Before making any decisions on permanent residence, you should at least take a trip to Colorado, around Boulder and Golden, and another to the Pacific Northwest (Seattle area), just to see the flavor of some other areas.

I've never been to the northwest, but I have lived in both North and South Dakota. The midwest is okay, but I'm not sure it's for me.

c~mom:

there's a lot to be said for the comfort of a hometown

I've never had one, so I wouldn't know!

Winters are a thing that some people hate...warning winters in the Northeast can feel a little depressing after a few weeks without sunshine, and if you don't get a kick out of buzzin around in a big 4wheel drive truck or sippin hot cocoa just to keep your fingertips warm Vt and surrounding states might not be for you!

I liked it okay in New Hampshire, although I was a minor at the time and I didn't have to take care of the car. We also lived right in town, so there wasn't much plowing to do.

Spring does not come after winter, it's mud season...then comes this short little tease of neon green grass and tulips for like 3 days and then we just dive on into summer, and with that comes the mosquitos!

Ah yes, I remember that ... icy slush in mid-April! That may have been after the Ice Storm of '98, most of the effects of which we were thankfully spared. A lot of people in other parts of NH lost power.

Don't want to scare you away...but the reason we come to these forums is for the TRUTH!!!! Personally I wouldn't trade the change of seasons for anything, you couldn't transplant me to Florida for 10 million dollars!!

I've been to Florida, and I'm with you on that one!

The big expenses up this way is winter, so you gotta love winter so you don't get too cranky about paying the heating bills, which are getting worse every year, and if you've got thin southern blood, you'll be crankin it your first winter or two!! LOL!!

My family is from New England! The only reason we're living here right now is because my grandmother had my mother in Georgia, after she moved down here. As far as the heating bills, would investing in a more energy-efficient house improve the situation any? How feasible is that?

But don't be disturbed by the good 'ol boys huntin deer, and drinkin an ice cold brew on a 5 degree day in November, they have there own idea of livin in the northeast too!

They can't be as rough as the good 'ol boys down here, ma'am.

Mrs. Perfect might think kids have an amazing opportunity to meet new friends and have different daily experiences then either one of you could offer through homeschooling...so you might want to put the breaks on a little their single guy LOL

Plenty of homeschooled girls to choose from! Plenty of opportunities for homeschooled kids to socialize and have fun experiences, too.

Also your Internet Job, some rural areas do not have high speed internet availability yet! Also cable TV is a rare luxury in some areas too!!

I don't watch cable TV! High-speed is a must, though. I'm aware that much of the state relies on satellite internet, and that it's more expensive.

Thank you all for your advice! Once again, I'm not moving anytime soon, but I'd love to move someplace and I'm gathering info right now. Further input is welcome ... for instance, if you live in VT, what part of VT do you live in and why do you like it (or not) there?

[MissingAll4Seasons]

Just chiming in on the Pacific Northwest (PNW) since I'm stuck there right now. If you like being friendly with your neighbor (real friends not surface nicery) don't come to Seattle... they're polite, but not really friendly (might affect your ability to find Ms. Perfect). If you get depressed by gray skies, don't come to PNW at all.... NE might get gray & snowy winters, but PNW gets gray and rainy winters that last just as long. Traffic in Seattle and Portland is completely ridiculous... the roads are too narrow, in poor shape, always under construction, and no one seems to agree on the proper way to drive (and not just the highways, surface streets are just as bad). If you like deciduous trees (ones with real leaves) PNW is probably not the place for you... lots of pine trees here, a few cedars, and tons of aspens who go from green to naked in a matter of minutes, not too much on the fall foliage and you might get sick of all the green. If you like snowy cold winters, Seattle isn't the place to be... it's cold but mostly it just rains those tiny frozen razor droplets. High-tech is pretty big here... so big in fact, that your business might have too much competition (all those retired Microsoft people). You could head into Oregon or Eastern Washington, but might run into areas with no HSI or Cell service. Mold and mildew is year-long concern, both inside and outside your house. If you want a beautiful lawn, you better like moss. There are some nice LDS temples in the area, and people in Seattle (at least) are pretty religiously tolerant.... however, keep in mind that the majority of Seattlites & PNWers religiously self-medicate with coffee and micro-brewed beer, so if you're a strict Mormon it might be difficult to find social activities that don't include one or both.

[MysticJoy]

Murrquan:

Perhaps I can give you insight to the state of Vermont as a Vermonter looking to move to a warmer state.

I have lived in Vermont all my life. We have distinctly 4 seasons. Summer (never long enough for me) where it is hot and humid (80ish, but usually humid), fall (beautiful leaves, tourist heavy, and the air is rich in aroma), winter (very cold, sometimes heavy snow, not uncommon to be below 0 and mostly in the teens), and mud season . . . err spring (not as bad as some states I hear - and it really is beautiful and enriching to get rid of the snow!).

My biggest complaint with Vermont (I live in Rutland County) is that it just does not develop. Big chain stores try to come here but are fought tooth and nail by the city NOT to be a part of the community. When you want to buy a computer . . . your choices are the internet, Staples, or Sears. That's it. The prices are high because there is no competition. We actually have a law that limits growth, Act 250 I believe it is called.

However, Vermonters are very tolerant of others and I like to think of us going above and beyond when it comes to newcomers. It may be because we are dependent on the income of tourists so we aim to please! We were the first state to legalize same gender marriage. We embrace individuality. A 5 minute drive from the city brings you to the less developed areas where it is like a step back in time. Farming communities, rural towns, and even dirt roads are still common here. Vermont is proud of how clean we are, and most of the state is very clean. Litter is not a problem. There are no billboards in Vermont, they are not allowed.

There is cable and DSL available all throughout Vermont. They are about the same speed at the moment so your choice on what you want to go with.

Cost to heat is high at the moment. Most homes are heated by oil and the oil prices are HUGE. Electricity is pretty high too. Again, remember there is very little if any competition in Vermont for prices so most companies are a monopoly.

There are quite a few homes that get rented out around here. Home prices are not all that high, but most homes need a little cosmetic work. You could easily pick up a home for $100,000 with a tad of land. In fact, once my divorce is through, my home will be listed for that much in a VERY nice community.

Vermonters tend to stay to themselves, but we are mindful of strange vehicles and we tend to keep an eye on children and homes when we spot one. Crime is nearly nonexistent with just a few rare outbreaks. Unfortunately though, this makes our police force rather inexperienced on how to handle crimes. (Note, this is my opinion!)

Vermont is mostly a white community, though we do like other races. Unfortunately though we just have not been able to attract different races to help bring more to our state. This has been slightly improving in the last decade (attracting more races to our state), but not enough to my taste.

Schools here are very good and safe (knock on wood). The teachers here really do care about the children and work with the parents to improve their grades (I know this firsthand). The classrooms are relatively small (about 15 to 20) and personalized to the child's needs. However, the downside is our taxes are pretty high to support this.

I hope that gives you insight about Vermont. I would be happy to elaborate on more if you wish. Just let me know!

MJ

[Dwatted Wabbit]

Originally Posted by MysticJoy

Murrquan:

Perhaps I can give you insight to the state of Vermont as a Vermonter looking to move to a warmer state.

I have lived in Vermont all my life. We have distinctly 4 seasons. Summer (never long enough for me) where it is hot and humid (80ish, but usually humid), fall (beautiful leaves, tourist heavy, and the air is rich in aroma), winter (very cold, sometimes heavy snow, not uncommon to be below 0 and mostly in the teens), and mud season . . . err spring (not as bad as some states I hear - and it really is beautiful and enriching to get rid of the snow!).

My biggest complaint with Vermont (I live in Rutland County) is that it just does not develop. Big chain stores try to come here but are fought tooth and nail by the city NOT to be a part of the community. When you want to buy a computer . . . your choices are the internet, Staples, or Sears. That's it. The prices are high because there is no competition. We actually have a law that limits growth, Act 250 I believe it is called.

However, Vermonters are very tolerant of others and I like to think of us going above and beyond when it comes to newcomers. It may be because we are dependent on the income of tourists so we aim to please! We were the first state to legalize same gender marriage. We embrace individuality. A 5 minute drive from the city brings you to the less developed areas where it is like a step back in time. Farming communities, rural towns, and even dirt roads are still common here. Vermont is proud of how clean we are, and most of the state is very clean. Litter is not a problem. There are no billboards in Vermont, they are not allowed.

There is cable and DSL available all throughout Vermont. They are about the same speed at the moment so your choice on what you want to go with.

Cost to heat is high at the moment. Most homes are heated by oil and the oil prices are HUGE. Electricity is pretty high too. Again, remember there is very little if any competition in Vermont for prices so most companies are a monopoly.

There are quite a few homes that get rented out around here. Home prices are not all that high, but most homes need a little cosmetic work. You could easily pick up a home for $100,000 with a tad of land. In fact, once my divorce is through, my home will be listed for that much in a VERY nice community.

Vermonters tend to stay to themselves, but we are mindful of strange vehicles and we tend to keep an eye on children and homes when we spot one. Crime is nearly nonexistent with just a few rare outbreaks. Unfortunately though, this makes our police force rather inexperienced on how to handle crimes. (Note, this is my opinion!)

Vermont is mostly a white community, though we do like other races. Unfortunately though we just have not been able to attract different races to help bring more to our state. This has been slightly improving in the last decade (attracting more races to our state), but not enough to my taste.

Schools here are very good and safe (knock on wood). The teachers here really do care about the children and work with the parents to improve their grades (I know this firsthand). The classrooms are relatively small (about 15 to 20) and personalized to the child's needs. However, the downside is our taxes are pretty high to support this.

I hope that gives you insight about Vermont. I would be happy to elaborate on more if you wish. Just let me know!

MJ

Interesting post, thanks for the input. You and c~mom definitely added something here.
What towns do you like?

[MRVphotog]

Really awesome posts.....just wanted to mention high speed internet(DSL or broadband) is definately not available thoughtout the state. If it wasn't for the fact that we have our own phone company in the MRV we would not have DSL. Sounds like that would be important for you.

My friends who still are forced to use dial-up mostly live on a dirt roads several miles form town. A couple of summers ago I lived in Chelsea and going back to dial up was very expensive(no local number to connect with) and when I had to email a large image file it took about 3 hours to complete. Wasn't a big deal for me as the quiet and peacefulness was almost intoxicating. Another friend up in Wolcot has some sort of satillite internet connection so maybe that's availible everywhere.

[tkln]

I'll second that remark - high speed is definitely not available all over...there are parts of Stowe that can get it, and parts of it that will probably never get it, unless you go with satellite. It is just not cost-effective for companies to run cables and provide service to only a few homes in remote areas...though I am not sure what will happen with the new legislation.

[vter]

My co-worker lives in a rural part of Chittenden County and cannot get high-speed internet access. They signed up for satellite internet which they say is better than dial-up, but still not great. Don't assume that you can get cable or DSL everywhere, as others have noted.