[seion]

Hello all:

Just wanted to start a conversation on whether if the single-payer system is implemented in Vermont would you stay or leave the state. This will impact the economy of the state and the people who live in it (me included) and I am looking to get thoughts on how this could affect living in Vermont. By no means am I trying to make this political at all; just trying to see if the change will impact the economics to a point that it would make it hard to stay or for people to relocate here. Thanks.

[Sierrajeff]

Good lord, for me it would be an additional incentive to move *back* to Vermont. I (optimistically, I admit) think that once people see how simple it is to have a single-payer system - and once employers wrap their heads around it and realize that they no longer need legions of internal HR people just to deal with insurance paperwork and negotiations and claims - that it'll take off like a bandit. I think.

[Oriz]

I for one plan to stay. That doesn't mean I necessarily agree or will agree with all of it, but to form that opinion I need to see the final product. Either way it won't be a game changer for me.

[cgregor]

All five of the studies agreed that single-payer could save Vermonters a half a billion over what they already spend. This would mean in effect that after paying through their taxes (payroll, income and whatever) for the care they need-- and those numbers are known-- every man, woman and child in Vermont would effectively have $800 more in his/her pocket annually.

There are a couple of knotty problems. One is that 52% of Vermonters have insurance which covers 90% or more of their costs. Any single-payer plan which does not do better than that will not get their support. A good number of our legislators are extremely naive about the power of government money to do better than little individual dribbles of private money. They are quite likely to favor something even worse than the worst aspects of Obamacare.

Another is the bugaboo of [screams] "Taxes!!!" A lot of people in this state have been trained, as have most Americans, to consider taxes evil incarnate and to regard with the utmost cynicism or indifference the political process. One of the principal actors in the upcoming legislative session recently expressed his irritation with people thinking "it's free!"

(I don't know how many others there might be like him/her in the legislature who don't understand that, like highways, medical care you don't pay for up front looks "free" to them. Unless the legislators understand the voters tag everything taxes pay for as "free," a good number of them are not going to look at changing the present inequitable tax system. After all, they don't want voters to know they've meddled with evil.)

I will certainly stay.

[arctichomesteader]

It's going to drive out a lot of taxpayers and attract a lot of people who don't pay taxes. It won't work. We're too small to support this level of spending. And I don't trust anything Gruber had a hand in.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by seion

Hello all:

Just wanted to start a conversation on whether if the single-payer system is implemented in Vermont would you stay or leave the state. This will impact the economy of the state and the people who live in it (me included) and I am looking to get thoughts on how this could affect living in Vermont. By no means am I trying to make this political at all; just trying to see if the change will impact the economics to a point that it would make it hard to stay or for people to relocate here. Thanks.

I'll move TO the state.

Well off and well educated people will not leave. We are happy to pay our fair share.

[FrugalYankee]

Already gone.
Business dissolution effective last week. Doing much better on the other side of the Connecticut River.
Once I sell a rental property i will have pulled up stakes completely.
Vermont will be but a memory.

[domc]

I moved to the state because of it two yrs ago. Among other things. I've lived in 5 other states and it's no better outside of VT right now. Either pay medical bills with taxes or by getting a bill from the Doc. I'd prefer taxes and by no means, there is no such thing as free health care in ANY country.

[cgregor]

A very interesting way of paying for universal health care in Vermont is starting to make the rounds.

Instead of a flat payroll tax per employee, the tax would be based on the order of magnitude in difference between the average employee's pay and the pay of the head of the company. Example: Wal-Mart, whose CEO makes 1,900+ times what the average Vermont Wal-Mart employee makes, would pay X amount per employee, while the proprietor of a country store (which industry employs far more people in Vermont than Wal-Mart does, with far smaller profits) who made only twice what the average employee makes, would pay 2/1900ths of X per employee.

The reaction of small businesses in Vermont is awaited. As I said, it's starting to get around.

[FrugalYankee]

Originally Posted by cgregor

A very interesting way of paying for universal health care in Vermont is starting to make the rounds.

Instead of a flat payroll tax per employee, the tax would be based on the order of magnitude in difference between the average employee's pay and the pay of the head of the company. Example: Wal-Mart, whose CEO makes 1,900+ times what the average Vermont Wal-Mart employee makes, would pay X amount per employee, while the proprietor of a country store (which industry employs far more people in Vermont than Wal-Mart does, with far smaller profits) who made only twice what the average employee makes, would pay 2/1900ths of X per employee.

The reaction of small businesses in Vermont is awaited. As I said, it's starting to get around.

HAH! What happens when the employees get paid better than the owner, as sometimes happens?