[PortlandSux]

Originally Posted by Wartrace

My thought is that if we legalize there would be better controls and less property crime for other citizens. If drug abusers could purchase their fix at a drug store for a reasonable price there is less incentive to harm other citizens. I personally do not care what an adult chooses to do to themselves in the privacy of their own home. Enforce public intoxication laws and driving rules and let the people decide.

It would be a HORRIBLE idea for society to legalize heroin. If you want an idea of what that's like all you have to do is look at 1800s China, when the British forced the opium trade on China. The British didn't have anything to sell to China and was losing their silver reserves buying Chinese tea and porcelain exports, so they decided to push onto China the opium grown from the poppy fields of British India in the name of free trade. The Chinese burned the opium from the British East India ships in the Chinese ports, which led to the British bringing their gunboats to force its trade, see the history on the two Opium Wars in the mid-1800s. By the late 1800s, something like 1/3rd of the Chinese population in every social class were on opium; in the next 75 years the country would then experience 3 epic civil wars, a Japanese invasion, and finally a Communist takeover. The Chinese life expectancy went from the 50s in the 1700s to the 30s in 1945. The Communists finally turned opium use and smuggling into a death penalty.

Compared to opium, heroin is an even more potent and fast-acting opiate (opium is smoked, heroin is IV injected). You will care what an adult chooses to do to themselves when it's your 19 year old daughter injecting heroin in her veins in the privacy of your bathroom and you're powerless to do anything about it. You will also care when your country goes into hell in a hand basket when 1/3rd of your population is doped up on heroin.

[RunawayJim]

Originally Posted by PortlandSux

But heroin and meth aren't remotely in the same category as alcohol or marijuana and its dangers need to very clearly stated and illustrated.

That's the problem. They aren't. But that's what the government wants kids to think. They're all lumped together in this "drugs are bad" teaching and so teenagers try the most easily accessible one (marijuana) and think "this isn't that bad" and when they're taught that all drugs are just as bad as the next, they've got no real information to decide that heroin is a LOT worse than pot.

[RunawayJim]

Originally Posted by PortlandSux

It would be a HORRIBLE idea for society to legalize heroin. If you want an idea of what that's like all you have to do is look at 1800s China, when the British forced the opium trade on China. The British didn't have anything to sell to China and was losing their silver reserves buying Chinese tea and porcelain exports, so they decided to push onto China the opium grown from the poppy fields of British India in the name of free trade. The Chinese burned the opium from the British East India ships in the Chinese ports, which led to the British bringing their gunboats to force its trade, see the history on the two Opium Wars in the mid-1800s. By the late 1800s, something like 1/3rd of the Chinese population in every social class were on opium; in the next 75 years the country would then experience 3 epic civil wars, a Japanese invasion, and finally a Communist takeover. The Chinese life expectancy went from the 50s in the 1700s to the 30s in 1945. The Communists finally turned opium use and smuggling into a death penalty.

Compared to opium, heroin is an even more potent and fast-acting opiate (opium is smoked, heroin is IV injected). You will care what an adult chooses to do to themselves when it's your 19 year old daughter injecting heroin in her veins in the privacy of your bathroom and you're powerless to do anything about it. You will also care when your country goes into hell in a hand basket when 1/3rd of your population is doped up on heroin.

The idea of legalizing drugs isn't horrible. Then the people who end up addicted can be treated as human beings with a disease instead of as criminals. They can more easily seek help without the stigma of being a drug addicted criminal. Drug abuse is not a crime problem. It's a public health problem.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by RunawayJim

That's the problem. They aren't. But that's what the government wants kids to think. They're all lumped together in this "drugs are bad" teaching and so teenagers try the most easily accessible one (marijuana) and think "this isn't that bad" and when they're taught that all drugs are just as bad as the next, they've got no real information to decide that heroin is a LOT worse than pot.

Totally agree. That's why I drew a different line. I was honest about marijuana. I told them I'd throw them into the streets if they even tried the hard stuff. They believed me. I don't suffer addicts---that goes for alcoholics too.

I'll never forget when my then 6th grader asked me why marijuana wasn't legal while alcohol was legal even though it's addictive. When I ran into a police officer at the convenience store, I asked him what I was supposed to say to that. He said, "Ma'am, if the worst thing your children ever try is marijuana, you should consider yourself lucky."

My children are adults now and safely past the age where there is a need for concern. They have good heads on their shoulders and have made excellent decisions in their lives. Maybe I was lucky. Maybe it was because I drew that different line. I don't know which. I'm just glad mine turned out okay.

[Targo]

Originally Posted by RunawayJim

The idea of legalizing drugs isn't horrible. Then the people who end up addicted can be treated as human beings with a disease instead of as criminals. They can more easily seek help without the stigma of being a drug addicted criminal. Drug abuse is not a crime problem. It's a public health problem.

That's just crazy talk, the next thing you'll tell us is that mental health isn't stigmatized and swept under the carpet in this country.

Oh wait……..my bad. I forgot, if you aren't bleeding or have a compound fracture their is nothing wrong with you and you just need to pull your self up by the boot straps.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Targo

That's just crazy talk...

I agree that legalizing heroin is crazy talk. RunawayJim is unrealistically idealistic on what that would accomplish.

[Targo]

It currently appears to be easier and safer for kids to buy heroin than beer today. How'z that war of drugs going again?

I'm not a fan of the government "saving" us from ourselves.

Are we all here to live our lives as others deem appropriate?

Screw that.

[wutitiz]

Originally Posted by vter

From the Governor's State of the Union Speech:
Every week, our Drug Task Force estimates more than $2 million of heroin and other opiates are being trafficked into Vermont.

• Due to our proximity to Boston, New York, Philadelphia, and other cities where heroin is cheap, dealers can make a lot of money from addicts in Vermont. A $6 bag of heroin in New York City can go for up to $30 here. So think about that: a $6 purchase could sell for five times as much, just a few hours up the interstate.

Gov. Shumlin's 2014 State of the State Address | The Official Website of the Governor of Vermont

They could traffic all the heroin they wanted into my house, but I would not use it. Or marijuana, for that matter. The essence of drug addiction is demand, not supply. If there is not a demand for drugs, drug dealers will disappear faster than you can say Jack Robinson.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Targo

It currently appears to be easier and safer for kids to buy heroin than beer today. How'z that war of drugs going again?

I'm not a fan of the government "saving" us from ourselves.

Are we all here to live our lives as others deem appropriate?

Screw that.

My children told me it was easier to buy illegal drugs than alcohol and cigarettes. That's a good argument for legalization of everything. After a time, there wouldn't be much of black market. I wonder how long after prohibition ended before bootlegging went to the wayside.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by wutitiz

They could traffic all the heroin they wanted into my house, but I would not use it. Or marijuana, for that matter. The essence of drug addiction is demand, not supply. If there is not a demand for drugs, drug dealers will disappear faster than you can say Jack Robinson.

Exactly!