Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Normie, in response, Williston is like the Twilight Zone. We have Big Blue and that's a Big Reason this community has become what it has. This is also where an awful lot of professional people choose to live because it holds status for them, and I don't know why. This was a very tiny town that had an influx of wealthy come in and build subdivisions of homes worth $750,000. Big developers bought up large areas that used to be farmland, and built big box stores, restaurants, etc., and there are huge developments planned that haven't been started yet. The town had to build a second elementary school. There doesn't seem to be an end to the building.
Speaking of the schools, they are now controlled by people who have never seen this community as it was. They have changed the atmosphere to an elitist way of thinking. I overheard one parent complain about a few low-income housing apartments being built (by law), because it will bring low income children into 'their' schools.
I don't know the answer for Brattleboro. It's more rural down that way, and there aren't so many outsiders moving in. I think the majority is still locals, and locals don't have the desire to make Vermont so progressive. They're pretty lucky they don't have the problems we have up here.
I grew up in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn. I couldn't wait to move to the country. I could live in the suburbs, I enjoy the look of fresh new communities and subdivisions. As the population grows you're going to have urban sprawl.
Scran Barre, for an open-minded gay man you sure have a lot of rules you think others should abide by. I don't want someone telling me where I can and can not live. I think the word "liberal" is the biggest oxymoron in the English language. Good luck trying to put the kabash on the American dream.
(Sighs and shakes head). It is everyone's business. Why, may you ask? Gasoline is a finite resource, is it not? What happens when rapidly depleting natural resources begin to become scarce due to increasing demand? Skyrocketing prices. The more people like you that are out there driving large vehicles that are inefficient and living in McMansions that have more living space that one could possibly ever find a use for (yet still has to be heated and cooled) the more likely we will be to face progressively higher and higher costs as a society.
I'm a proponent of the "Polluter Pays Principle" in that those who are buying large SUVs and living in suburban McMansions should pay penalties and fees to help mitigate their environmentally destructive decisions. The money reaped from these taxes should go towards research of alternative energy sources or to help provide a stipend to help senior citizens on fixed incomes heat their homes---homes that they may lose due to their inability to pay for increasing costs largely associated with the gluttony of the upper-middle-class in squandering our scarce resources.
Am I a communist? No. I am a proud utilitarian though---the greatest good for the greatest number. How is it benefiting others for you to be tooling around in a Range Rover and living in a sprawling McMansion subdivision? Doesn't anyone care about minimizing their carbon footprints anymore so that future generations can enjoy the same natural beauty that our present generations have been taking for granted? I may be jaded since I live on the outermost fringe of the NYC sprawl as it begins to creep into the Poconos, but I find it ironic that by moving further and further out from cities in ever-increasing concentric circles in order to have your own little chunk of "nature" we are making the trek between rural and urban further and further. One can now drive from Portland, Maine southwards to perhaps around Fredericksburg, Virginia (roughly the BosWash Corridor) and travel through a contiguous area of suburban/exurban development over hundreds of miles whereas even just two generations ago there were noticeable gaps between these distinctive metropolitan areas. I may live to see the day when the sprawl becomes so bad that York and Lancaster, PA are officially annexed into the Washington/Baltimore CSA, Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton is officially annexed into either the Philadelphia or NYC areas, and Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is devoured by the NYC CSA. Some people near me commute five-hours round-trip daily to work. That's just asinine.
It is not the government's (read, TAXPAYERS,) duty to finance, house, feed, cloth, heat or medicate any member of the citizenry.
This Country was founded on rugged individualism. The Constitution guarantees equality of opportunity, not outcome.
If one can not afford to live in a cold climate, there is an alternative, move to warmer climes. It is not the business of government to tell someone how or where they may live.
Income redistribution through taxes and fees are not a Utilitarian concept, but Communism. There are those who stand to make millions of dollars off the backs of the citizenry by building wind farms and solar plants. The resulting "carbon credits," will be exchanged via hedge funds. All I have to know is who all the players are, and I am firmly against it!
The first thing you learn in any economics 101 class is that the market is driven by one thing, and one thing only...profit. Greed is good. It is the cornerstone of our Democratic Republic. Capitalism trumps redistribution every time.
After moving to the suburbs, I finally began walking on a regular basis. In Nova, I lived near the Potomac River so I got involved with kayaking and hiking groups. I was comfortable walking to the store to buy a bag of groceries--even though it was at night. My neighborhood in Loudoun County has almost no crime at all.
Commuting is a problem for some people, but not everyone. I could walk to work--many people who live in suburbs work within a few miles of their home.
I am glad you found a neighborhood you like. Alas, New Jersey is infamous for its long commutes, as well as "communities" that make walking extremely difficult and otherwise enact zoning laws and budgets designed to keep residents confined to their homes, cars, and the mall. In most places that we've looked at re. buying a home, the majority of residents seem to commute long distances; during the day, you can hear a blade of grass fall, it's so empty. Living in an urban area, I DO take advantage of walking to a park or along a boardwalk with my son. Once we move to the burbs, as will happen in the foreseeable future, we will be pretty much limited to the backyard -- unless we want to take the car; and the variety of things located within a short drive is very limited.
Quote:
Originally Posted by normie
I bolded your comment about obesity. That's a common myth, but in fact the CDC shows that obesity is a much greater problem in dense metropolitan areas. (Links below.)
Fair enough, but how do the rates compare across the same economic spectra? In other words, how do the rates of obesity among the middle class in the city compare to the rates of obesity among the middle class in the suburbs? Here is how I see it: spending 3-4 hours per day commuting leaves no time for exercise (and yes, I DO go to the gym every day, despite having a small child); driving to the supermarket, as opposed to walking, means you'll buy more food; having more food in the fridge means you are likely to eat more (not that you shouldn't exercise self-control -- it just makes it more difficult); plus the obvious problem of doing less walking and more driving/train riding, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by normie
But, I will give you the argument about isolation. If you don't like your fellow surburban neighbors, you are likely to feel isolated.
Please don't ascribe ideas to me that I never expressed. It's not a question of liking, just like living in the city, for me, is not a question of being "hip". It's a question of leaving your suburban house at 6 a.m. and returning at 8 p.m (assuming everything goes smoothly). Even if your neighbors are very nice folks, your family, dinner and chores still take priority -- and there is just no time to socialize with anyone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmyankee
The private ownership of land, no matter what size parcel, is the cornerstone of the American Dream.
Let's put everyone into friendly anti-sprawl zones and keep the pristine countryside from any sort of development and devoid of Jobs.
mod cut: banter with another member removed. First of all, dmyankee, I never suggested that apartments should be government-owned; and apartment ownership does entail ownership of land. Second, I never suggested that governmental coercion should be used to change people's housing and driving habits -- in fact, I am certain that it will be up to the market and the environment to do that. (Isn't that capitalism, after all? I mean, will you have no problem with giving up your 10,000 sq. foot house and your pretend-Humvee if the market forces you to -- right?) Quit having a knee-jerk reaction, and realize that the American Dream has many aspects to it, some of them mutually exclusive. As far as you -- you personally -- are concerned, I really don't care about the size of your house, or the size of your car, or the size of anything else you own or aspire to owning. Really, that's not what the conversation is about.
Last edited by scirocco22; 09-14-2008 at 06:43 PM..
Reason: Do not reprimand or bait another member on the board ...use a Direct Message or your PVM only, please! Thank you.
The only way urban sprawl can be stopped is by fundamentally altering people's ideas about how to live. One- and two-story single-family housing represents perhaps the most inefficient use of land we can have, that causes rapid deforestation, insane commutes, obesity, isolation, and pollution from cars. The only viable long-term alternative is the Hong Kong model -- increasing density through high-rise living and thereby preserving farmland and park space.
My daughter/grandchildren lived in Hong Kong for almost 2 years. The pollution/smog is so dense, you can't even see the skyline from Victoria Peak.
Ah. . . this discussion has become a bit "heated" in tone. . . . maybe time to step back, oops, I think I mean "forward" a couple of thousand years and see what human overpopulation is doing to our planet?
Sprawl, urban, or otherwise cannot and will not be "contolled" unless or until we collectively, as a specie, work together towards controlling human "overpopulation". . . OK guys, no "hate mail" here, please. . . I realize that many of you believe that "human life" is so much more valuable than any other kind of life. . . etc. etc. . . but we ARE becoming the animal that wantonly "pollutes" our own enviornment, and human population density, worldwide, is driving that pollution. . . something to "think about"?. . .
Once we move to the burbs, as will happen in the foreseeable future, we will be pretty much limited to the backyard -- unless we want to take the car; and the variety of things located within a short drive is very limited.
Hmmmm, if it's that unpleasant, why are you thinking of moving there? If there are no suburbs within a close commute to your job, maybe it's time to look for a new job that's closer.
I don't know much about NJ, but the towns I've been to there seem pretty nice. I seem to recall see people riding bikes and taking walks--maybe you need to look at other towns. I do know a bit about Long Island. If you are commuting to NYC, how about trying Bayville? Or Huntington? Or Oyster Bay? Lots of jobs to be found in Huntington, I hear. I have relatives who live and work there, and the whole area is very conducive to walking and bicycling.
*Thread pause*
We need a few of you to go back and read the Administrator's sticky:
The thread will be closed for a short period of time until some posts are edited.
Thank you.
Quote:
Ok, has everybody had time to re-read the Administrator's sticky?
I want to remind everybody that baiting will not be allowed here. If you think another member's comments are out of line for the type of discussions that should be taking place here, please report it to a moderator. Do not take it upon yourself to reprimand another member for breaking the rules. That only baits the other member to retaliate.
If any conversations are to be taking place discussing other members inappropriate remarks, take it to a Direct Message or to your PVM board.
Thanks.
Last edited by scirocco22; 09-14-2008 at 07:10 PM..
So in other words I'm apparently the only one who worries that continuing to sprawl people outwards 3, 4, 5, even 6+ hours away from urban cores is not environmentally responsible? The Poconos are replete with thousands upon thousands of people who commute 5-hours daily into NYC for work and have no "ties" to PA as a result. They just buy cheap homes here and sleep in them. They have no time to join the PTA, neighborhood watch, etc. and just let their children become the responsibility of neighbors who want nothing to do with them.
mod cut: "pointing" to another member removed ...we'll see who has the last laugh when gasoline prices continue to rise and the middle-class in the suburbs start whining about wanting the government to "do something to help lower fuel prices."
Last edited by scirocco22; 09-14-2008 at 08:01 PM..
Reason: Please! ...word it in a different manner so as not to bait another member on a personal level. We're debating "issues" here
^^^ I guess I'd like to know just how many people are doing this, what % of the population this is, etc, before I'd call it a major problem. Anything more than 2 hrs seems crazy to me, and even that's more than I'd be willing to do except in extreme circumstances.
Here are just a few links that discuss the issue of suburbs and obesity. The preponderance of evidence seems to support that a suburban lifestyle is not a cause of obesity.
The vast majority of the city dwellers that I know have cars and use them to go to work or school, buy groceries and the things that suburbanites use their cars for.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
