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No more than 3 travel lanes? Ha. The Capital Beltway has 5 in spots, and it's still a parking lot every day. Same with I-95 in South Florida. If you've got extra-large amounts of traffic, you need extra-large roadways. Transit just isn't going to cut it; while South Florida has little transit, D.C. has an extensive system already.
Just a note because building new roadway capacity and reducing traffic causes more people to drive by going on trips they would have skipped before or using transit instead traffic cannot be reduced by either transit or more road capacity because people will put up with a certain level of congestion and if that does not exist people keep driving till it does exist. If you are interested to learn more there are many studies you can read that explain this more fully.
Just a note because building new roadway capacity and reducing traffic causes more people to drive by going on trips they would have skipped before or using transit instead traffic cannot be reduced by either transit or more road capacity because people will put up with a certain level of congestion and if that does not exist people keep driving till it does exist. If you are interested to learn more there are many studies you can read that explain this more fully.
That's clearly not the case, or roads would be packed all the time everywhere as people drove more and more to reach optimum congestion. It's probably the case that high congestion reduces trips -- that is, people don't do things they want to do because the transportation network is under capacity. Personally I consider that a bad thing. You see "induced demand", I see "unsatisfied demand".
No more than 3 travel lanes? Ha. The Capital Beltway has 5 in spots, and it's still a parking lot every day. Same with I-95 in South Florida. If you've got extra-large amounts of traffic, you need extra-large roadways. Transit just isn't going to cut it; while South Florida has little transit, D.C. has an extensive system already. [emphasis added]
Very well put . While transit does help to reduce congestion in major cities, it is not a cure-all, and certainly doesn't help enough to reduce every freeway to 3-4 lanes in each direction. The idea of a hard limit in that regard seems crazy to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nybbler
That's clearly not the case, or roads would be packed all the time everywhere as people drove more and more to reach optimum congestion. It's probably the case that high congestion reduces trips -- that is, people don't do things they want to do because the transportation network is under capacity. Personally I consider that a bad thing. You see "induced demand", I see "unsatisfied demand".
You're on a roll today. We've come to the sad point where many people consider the baseline, normal, adequate state of affairs to be heavy congestion, with free-flowing traffic being a deviation, whereas I personally consider free-flowing traffic to be the baseline and congestion to be the deviation.
So how does one ensure that baseline without destroying everything around them to accommodate everyone who wants to drive?
I mean to reduce common rush hour congestion how many more lanes would you be willing to add? Five? 50? Are you willing to pay for the acquisition of land to accommodate these?
Very well put . While transit does help to reduce congestion in major cities, it is not a cure-all, and certainly doesn't help enough to reduce every freeway to 3-4 lanes in each direction. The idea of a hard limit in that regard seems crazy to me.
It's not conclusive that transit actually reduces traffic congestion or not.
I'm all in favor of more tolls. I have a friend in the Bay Area who does "Casual Carpool" where she waits to get picked up by drivers heading to San Francisco. The reward to the driver, I believe, is that he or she is exempt from the tolls on the Bay Bridge. People would probably change their commuting habits if they were faced with a $10.00 toll each time they traveled into the central city.
So how does one ensure that baseline without destroying everything around them to accommodate everyone who wants to drive?
I mean to reduce common rush hour congestion how many more lanes would you be willing to add? Five? 50? Are you willing to pay for the acquisition of land to accommodate these?
Good point.
Also It has been shown in many cases, that the more freeways, you build, the more automotive traffic will fill up those new lanes. So in the long run, it only creates more vehicular traffic, and unneeded congestion.
Well, raise it more and eventually it well. It could be priced to fluctuate with demand.
I suppose as you kept raising the prices you might eventually have nothing going in during rush hour but chauffeur-driven limos. There's probably enough of them to cause congestion, though.
I suppose as you kept raising the prices you might eventually have nothing going in during rush hour but chauffeur-driven limos. There's probably enough of them to cause congestion, though.
Thinking about this deeper, since there's a large enough class of people with lots of money but time constrained, there'd be more demand for limos since now driving into/out Manhattan is practical time-wise. Which would force the prices higher until congestion eventually declines.
I do think the Hudson River connections should be tolled higher at rush hour while the non-Manhattan crossings (which don't have a good alternative to driving for most, so volume would less price responsive) should be tolled lower.
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. While transit does help to reduce congestion in major cities, it is not a cure-all, and certainly doesn't help enough to reduce every freeway to 3-4 lanes in each direction. The idea of a hard limit in that regard seems crazy to me.
